Sinkomies
Alikersantti
Well, to be honest, from day one, Ive always kind of pictured you people as some kind of finnish military version of Illuminati. Big hoods, candles and stuff like that. IL was spot on.
Diskussion om kriget i Ukraina, med deltagare - Discussion on war in Ukraine, with participant
- Viestiketjun aloittaja adam7
- Aloitus PVM
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- Tagit
- azov carolus löfroos ukraina
Well, to be honest, from day one, Ive always kind of pictured you people as some kind of finnish military version of Illuminati. Big hoods, candles and stuff like that. IL was spot on.
Hate to burst your bubble dude, but most of the fanatics on this forum are more along the lines of "M/62 fatigues & rubber boots, possibly extremely obese and sporting an uncut hobo beard decorated with uneaten pieces of sausage. And as a cherry on top, atleast five pieces of the National Defence medal (3rd class) pinned here and there across the chest of their jackets."
ps: takes one to know one, eh?
ps: takes one to know one, eh?
Viimeksi muokattu:
Beerfect
Eversti
Not only did the IL article give the impression of the source (maanpuolustus.net) being an exclusive website in some dark corner of the internet, I think IL also tried to purposefully leave it unanswered how many Finns are fighting in Ukraine, when in reality there are a dozen at most. SuPo, the Finnish FSB or Homeland Security-equivalent, admits individual Finns might be fighting in Ukraine, without the participation being widespread, which is the safest, most cowardly, most Finnish official, most Cpt. Obvious way of stating it. Ugh. They could just admit that "Your guess is as good as anybody's", right? The IL article title translates to "This is how Finns fight the war in Ukraine"...and not once does it speculate how many Finns are fighting in Ukraine. ...And then it just copypastes the content of this thread. One could even say that the article tries to give the impression that Finland is an active participant in the conflict. I mean, I know we aren't but let's say someone with minimal reading/questioning skills (*cough* a Russian) finds the article... "Oh look! See? Finns are TOTALLY fighting in Ukraine!". Is it irresponsible journalism if you know that your own citizens will figure out the article and its nuances, but an outside reader might draw massively false hasty initial conclusions? Any Russian could twist the article's content into "Oh look, Finns are in Ukraine! Fuck the Finns." But then again, Russians can twist and corrupt any claim, answer, text or speech. They sure have the desire to do so. So, it doesn't matter what one says about anything - they're going to corrupt the message anyway, to the best of their ability.
In the end, I think it's a good thing that this thread got some visibility. IL probably gathers more readers than maanpuolustus.net does. If I was a (miserable tabloid) journalist, I, too, might be a little excited to find this thread, even if I'd find it 2 months later, or rather, 2 months too late.
IL fails to realize we are not so much an organized group, but more of a collection of like-minded individuals, and even that might be a far-fetched thing to say. IL also states that there are multiple fighters discussing in here, but I'm aware of only one. At least I'm not claiming that I know who each of us is, unlike IL.
It begs the question why the writer (Nina Dale) didn't source maanpuolustus.net directly. Maybe she was duped? "Hey... Listen up... Here's some info I dug from the deeeeeep web. You wouldn't believe the secrets I found. These guys ALL fight in Ukraine, I swear, and this is their chatter. Now, this doesn't come cheap..." And thus some bullshitter walked away with a stack of cash for source material that's quite public. Gotta wonder if Iltalehti itself is aware of any of this. Or maybe Dale simply saw this thread, got excited and tried to find a way to tell people about this, and in her silly non-security-oriented mind tried to protect her sources, which is us, by not naming maanpuolustus.net. Most likely though, she (and Iltalehti) tried to give their Finnish readers the impression that oooooh boy do they have access to the deepest darkest secrets on the web! "Look at us! We have contacts and sources!" HAHAHA! On the other hand, Dale isn't exactly a Finnish last name. What if she's an American/Canadian/Brit/Whatever? Or married to one. And she just tried to put it out there that Finland is a western country, in her own twisted way. My smelly tin foil hat says she tried to inflame the Finnish-Russian relations with that article as subtly as possible. Ah, freedom of the press is a magical thing, even if it's an ignorant press. I'm so confused by the article that I can't tell what the intentions of the writer and IL were. Were they being intelligent or did they fall into some elaborate stupidity on their way? And who outside the IL gets to decide what happened?
On one hand a protective journalist might have to hide her sources, but on the other hand, omitting sources is bad journalism. What good it would be to try to hide a public forum as your source (if we assume the lack of intentional bullshitting), unless she genuinely thought exposing the source would put someone in danger? But... then how? If she knowingly and falsely tried to claim that "Oooh, we got access to stuff no one else knows of" then how long did she expect to keep that lie a secret? I just don't get it. I have to assume she was either duped or desperate for a story. Which is sad. It makes me wonder how many political shitstorms were started just because some miserable journalist needed a clickbait story? I smell bullshit from the article but I just can't trace it back to the root cause. Too many options and human variables from my point of view. There is a reason why the article was written the way it was written but hell if I know why. Typical tabloid bullshit or something more exceptional and conniving? I don't even know why I'm analyzing this so hard. I'm probably too close to the subject (at heart)... It's a tabloid article but it feels like intentional and intelligent incitement of (international) relations that comfortably wears the disguise of tabloid bullshit. Because even if IL has been traditionally a tabloid, when it came to Ukraine war, IL did good job, IMO, where as other Finnish newsmedia failed to report much or remained quiet. Personally I couldn't stand YLE in the past year - so much irrelevant and meaningless bullshit. It's like the war or the Russians didn't exist onYLE. A fucking disgrace, our official tax-paid news media. I sure as hell would like to interview Dale regarding that article. Are you guys being tabloid again? Just when I started to trust you guys? Did you find this thread yourselves or was it supplied to you as a printout or something? Never mind... I wouldn't believe you... It's OK. I'm used to being disappointed all the time anyway. What do you a call a news media that doesn't really tell you anything new, when its delivery of the said nothing is slightly warped, too?
P.S. I wear a cowl... That is if a hoodie counts as a cowl.
In the end, I think it's a good thing that this thread got some visibility. IL probably gathers more readers than maanpuolustus.net does. If I was a (miserable tabloid) journalist, I, too, might be a little excited to find this thread, even if I'd find it 2 months later, or rather, 2 months too late.
IL fails to realize we are not so much an organized group, but more of a collection of like-minded individuals, and even that might be a far-fetched thing to say. IL also states that there are multiple fighters discussing in here, but I'm aware of only one. At least I'm not claiming that I know who each of us is, unlike IL.
It begs the question why the writer (Nina Dale) didn't source maanpuolustus.net directly. Maybe she was duped? "Hey... Listen up... Here's some info I dug from the deeeeeep web. You wouldn't believe the secrets I found. These guys ALL fight in Ukraine, I swear, and this is their chatter. Now, this doesn't come cheap..." And thus some bullshitter walked away with a stack of cash for source material that's quite public. Gotta wonder if Iltalehti itself is aware of any of this. Or maybe Dale simply saw this thread, got excited and tried to find a way to tell people about this, and in her silly non-security-oriented mind tried to protect her sources, which is us, by not naming maanpuolustus.net. Most likely though, she (and Iltalehti) tried to give their Finnish readers the impression that oooooh boy do they have access to the deepest darkest secrets on the web! "Look at us! We have contacts and sources!" HAHAHA! On the other hand, Dale isn't exactly a Finnish last name. What if she's an American/Canadian/Brit/Whatever? Or married to one. And she just tried to put it out there that Finland is a western country, in her own twisted way. My smelly tin foil hat says she tried to inflame the Finnish-Russian relations with that article as subtly as possible. Ah, freedom of the press is a magical thing, even if it's an ignorant press. I'm so confused by the article that I can't tell what the intentions of the writer and IL were. Were they being intelligent or did they fall into some elaborate stupidity on their way? And who outside the IL gets to decide what happened?
On one hand a protective journalist might have to hide her sources, but on the other hand, omitting sources is bad journalism. What good it would be to try to hide a public forum as your source (if we assume the lack of intentional bullshitting), unless she genuinely thought exposing the source would put someone in danger? But... then how? If she knowingly and falsely tried to claim that "Oooh, we got access to stuff no one else knows of" then how long did she expect to keep that lie a secret? I just don't get it. I have to assume she was either duped or desperate for a story. Which is sad. It makes me wonder how many political shitstorms were started just because some miserable journalist needed a clickbait story? I smell bullshit from the article but I just can't trace it back to the root cause. Too many options and human variables from my point of view. There is a reason why the article was written the way it was written but hell if I know why. Typical tabloid bullshit or something more exceptional and conniving? I don't even know why I'm analyzing this so hard. I'm probably too close to the subject (at heart)... It's a tabloid article but it feels like intentional and intelligent incitement of (international) relations that comfortably wears the disguise of tabloid bullshit. Because even if IL has been traditionally a tabloid, when it came to Ukraine war, IL did good job, IMO, where as other Finnish newsmedia failed to report much or remained quiet. Personally I couldn't stand YLE in the past year - so much irrelevant and meaningless bullshit. It's like the war or the Russians didn't exist onYLE. A fucking disgrace, our official tax-paid news media. I sure as hell would like to interview Dale regarding that article. Are you guys being tabloid again? Just when I started to trust you guys? Did you find this thread yourselves or was it supplied to you as a printout or something? Never mind... I wouldn't believe you... It's OK. I'm used to being disappointed all the time anyway. What do you a call a news media that doesn't really tell you anything new, when its delivery of the said nothing is slightly warped, too?
P.S. I wear a cowl... That is if a hoodie counts as a cowl.
@Beerfecs or its just a lazy writer trying to get paid by having an article published. By not telling everyone its this page the individual can angle the article in to sounding much more interesting than reality. Its lazy and people do it all the time to get printed and how can you fault the writer. Its the editors job to see to it that what is printed is up to standard and if that is the standard that IL has then the writer is producing a product which fits the quality level. Judging by the article IL has an incredibly low quality product to sell.
@Sinkomies First off: Thanks for the answers to my questions! Now i got more of them...
Did you have any encounters with russian mine clearance vehicles? What types (roller or plough)? And how many and at what level? Meaning are they in every platoon or one per company? Did BMPs have any of those? Anything else you could tell us about them?
Did you have any encounters with russian mine clearance vehicles? What types (roller or plough)? And how many and at what level? Meaning are they in every platoon or one per company? Did BMPs have any of those? Anything else you could tell us about them?
Sinkomies
Alikersantti
Interesting. If they for some reason don't have capability to breach minefields under fire then that is a good news.
Beerfect
Eversti
A day late but Russians are gearing up again... seriously.
http://abcnews.go.com/International...litary-buildup-russia-ukraine-border-30532662
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...a-masses-more-forces-near-Ukraine-border.html
Plenty of minerals in Ukraine... and Russians (separatists) aren't resting until they get everything. Or at least that's what I fear.
http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612921/Ukraine/30105/Resources-and-power
I've yet to check where all those places even are. I know so little about the conflict overall. Might be worth thinking if it's possible to ruin those mineral deposit sites somehow, maybe plant a nuke or dirty bombs and leave it for the Russians to eat, as last resort... All the landmines. Trap the existing mining tunnels or outright blow them up. Experts needed here to advise how to turn land toxic, hazardous and unworkable. Probably impossible in this case, because tunnels can be dug from far away. But at least it would make the excavation more difficult. Russians like difficult.
Or start excavating as much as possible ASAP. No reason to leave anything for the Russians. Maybe Ukraine just needs tons of mining equipment? And start cooking up stories about riches that aren't there... and let Russians waste their time.
In the interest of world peace, it might be worth it to excavate everything from every country that borders Russia. Might prevent a war or two in the future. A global effort to fast-track the exploitation of those minerals to benefit the host countries... as long as they have half-decent regimes.
http://abcnews.go.com/International...litary-buildup-russia-ukraine-border-30532662
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...a-masses-more-forces-near-Ukraine-border.html
Plenty of minerals in Ukraine... and Russians (separatists) aren't resting until they get everything. Or at least that's what I fear.
http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612921/Ukraine/30105/Resources-and-power
I've yet to check where all those places even are. I know so little about the conflict overall. Might be worth thinking if it's possible to ruin those mineral deposit sites somehow, maybe plant a nuke or dirty bombs and leave it for the Russians to eat, as last resort... All the landmines. Trap the existing mining tunnels or outright blow them up. Experts needed here to advise how to turn land toxic, hazardous and unworkable. Probably impossible in this case, because tunnels can be dug from far away. But at least it would make the excavation more difficult. Russians like difficult.
Or start excavating as much as possible ASAP. No reason to leave anything for the Russians. Maybe Ukraine just needs tons of mining equipment? And start cooking up stories about riches that aren't there... and let Russians waste their time.
In the interest of world peace, it might be worth it to excavate everything from every country that borders Russia. Might prevent a war or two in the future. A global effort to fast-track the exploitation of those minerals to benefit the host countries... as long as they have half-decent regimes.
Or they are saving special purpose units for larger offensive operations..
Sinkomies
Alikersantti
Thats what Id guess as well.
Honcho
SMLNKO M/83
I'd say you're overthinking this
The journalist lady just wants the feel of some secret, mysterious information for the article.
Honcho
SMLNKO M/83
Hate to burst your bubble dude, but most of the fanatics on this forum are more along the lines of "M/62 fatigues & rubber boots, possibly extremely obese and sporting an uncut hobo beard decorated with uneaten pieces of sausage. And as a cherry on top, atleast five pieces of the National Defence medal (3rd class) pinned here and there across the chest of their jackets."
ps: takes one to know one, eh?
Wow, I would like to be even someone like that. I'm a 32-year old accountant and father of five, living frighteningly tedious life at the moment (I can change diapers pretty fast!). My last and only military experience was 6 months as a 81mm mortar operator in Karelia Brigade 12 years ago (no refresher courses! Seems like I learnt enough back then). My highest decoration is the medal for running over 3000m in Cooper test (didn't get the shooting medal - better for me to run away?).
I'm dreaming of having a little bit more free time in ca 3 years and then trying to get into the MAAKK (provincial Company) mortar platoon. Unless Putin decides to do something before that.
Honcho
SMLNKO M/83
BTW, I bet FDF people will be intrested in chatting with Karolus when he moves to Finland. I've heard that it's pretty normal for FDF to discuss with anyone with modern combat experience, e.g. mercenaries in Jugoslav civil war in the past. Karolus with experience of fighting russians would be much more relevant than probably anything before.
pstsika
Haukka
Moikka.
Olen kuulunut jo pitempään maanpuolustusnetin illumaattiin mutta loin uuden tunnuksen.
Minun on myös tultava ns kaapista ulos ja olen itsekkin myös ukrainassa kouluttamassa lääkintämiehiä.
Jos haluatte kysyä jotain voin mielellääni vastata.
Ei, en tunnu muita suomalaisia. Toimin täysin eri joukoissa.
Täytyy vain todettava että hyvin mielenkiintoinen reissu, kehenkään et voi luottaa.
Asiat ilmoitetaan tälläisellä tyylillä. " Tänään lähdetään, ei tietoa minne" itse asiassa laita varusteet päälle ja lähdetään"
Olen kuulunut jo pitempään maanpuolustusnetin illumaattiin mutta loin uuden tunnuksen.
Minun on myös tultava ns kaapista ulos ja olen itsekkin myös ukrainassa kouluttamassa lääkintämiehiä.
Jos haluatte kysyä jotain voin mielellääni vastata.
Ei, en tunnu muita suomalaisia. Toimin täysin eri joukoissa.
Täytyy vain todettava että hyvin mielenkiintoinen reissu, kehenkään et voi luottaa.
Asiat ilmoitetaan tälläisellä tyylillä. " Tänään lähdetään, ei tietoa minne" itse asiassa laita varusteet päälle ja lähdetään"
Viimeksi muokattu:
STI_Tactical9mm
Kenraali
pstsika
Haukka
Yep, and i am retired sturmbannführer who wrote from Argentina...
Fint att du orkar svara. Fint att du finns!