Ukrainan konflikti/sota
Euroopan unionilla ei tosiaankaan ole käsitystä uusien jäsenvaltioiden mukanaan tuomista yllätyksistä. Onko se yllätys? Itä-laajeneminen tehtiin hätiköiden ja ilman kummempaa järjen häivää. Olisin pitänyt EU:n Länsi-Eurooppalaisena 'malliesimerkkinä' maailmalle toimivasta unionista. Ja ei itälaajenemisessa muuta vikaa ollut kuin ajoitus.
Muuttta taas jossittelua että jos EU ei olisi Itä-Euroopan maille tarjonnut tulevaa länsimaista 'hyvinvointia' niin mitä Venäjä olisi ehtinyt tekemään..? Olis ja jos, panis ku sais.
Pointti siis oli että liian aikaisin laajennuttiin itään.
TT
Eversti
Nyt muutamatta vuotta vakiolukemistoa. Ei pääse Washington Postit ja kumppanit samalle journalistisen ideaalin tasolle. Mahtava pikku sinnittelijä.
Luhanskin kapinallisten toiminnasta videota:
Donbassissa toimivia Venäjän puolelta tulleita henkilöitä voisi sanoa vastavallankumouksellisiksi. Heidän tavoitteenaan on kumota Kiovassa tapahtunut vallankumous. Tässä on pohdittu kauanko tämä Ukrainan keissi kestää. Se kestää niin kauan kunnes vallankumous on kumottu ja Kiovassa istuu venäläismielinen presidentti.
Miten vastavallankumousta vastaan sitten pitäisi taistella: ehkä Kremlille pitää lisätä osapuolia.
Krimillä varmaankin on ajatuksia itsenäisestä Krimin valtiosta, jota Kiova voisi tukea. Kiova voisi tukea myös ajatuksia itsenäisestä Kaliningradin valtiosta. Kiova on oikeutettu siihen koska Kreml itsekin tukee ajatuksia Ukrainasta irtautuvista federaatioista. Miksei siis Kiova toimisi Moskovaa vastaan samoin kuin Moskova toimii Kiovaa vastaan. Jos Moskova pyrkii hajottamaan Ukrainan niin miksei Ukraina pyrkisi hajottamaan Venäjän.
Kaliningradin irtautumispyrkimykset Venäjästä olisivat Itämeren ja Suomenlahden valtioille hankalia. Toisaalta pitäisi tukea Kaliningradia, mutta toisaalta pitäisi vältellä avointa konfliktia Venäjän kanssa. Suomi olisi varmaankin vaikeassa tilanteessa, jos Venäjän laivasto pommittaisi Kaliningradia. Pitäisikö se estää vai olla puolueeton.
Kaliningrad on Euroopan Unionin ja Naton ympäröimä. Kaliningradissa käytävä itsenäisyystaistelu olisi hankala paikka Natolle ja Euroopan Unionille, että uskaltavatko Euroopan Unioni ja Nato tukea Kaliningradia sillä tavalla, että Venäjä olisi kyvytön estämään Kaliningradin itsenäistyminen. Entä, jos Krim ryhtyisi tavoittelemaan irtautumista Venäjästä. Uskaltaisivatko Nato ja Euroopan Unioni tukea Krimiä tavoitteessaan irtautua Venäjästä ja aloittaa olemaan itsenäinen Krimin valtio.
Miten vastavallankumousta vastaan sitten pitäisi taistella: ehkä Kremlille pitää lisätä osapuolia.
Krimillä varmaankin on ajatuksia itsenäisestä Krimin valtiosta, jota Kiova voisi tukea. Kiova voisi tukea myös ajatuksia itsenäisestä Kaliningradin valtiosta. Kiova on oikeutettu siihen koska Kreml itsekin tukee ajatuksia Ukrainasta irtautuvista federaatioista. Miksei siis Kiova toimisi Moskovaa vastaan samoin kuin Moskova toimii Kiovaa vastaan. Jos Moskova pyrkii hajottamaan Ukrainan niin miksei Ukraina pyrkisi hajottamaan Venäjän.
Kaliningradin irtautumispyrkimykset Venäjästä olisivat Itämeren ja Suomenlahden valtioille hankalia. Toisaalta pitäisi tukea Kaliningradia, mutta toisaalta pitäisi vältellä avointa konfliktia Venäjän kanssa. Suomi olisi varmaankin vaikeassa tilanteessa, jos Venäjän laivasto pommittaisi Kaliningradia. Pitäisikö se estää vai olla puolueeton.
Kaliningrad on Euroopan Unionin ja Naton ympäröimä. Kaliningradissa käytävä itsenäisyystaistelu olisi hankala paikka Natolle ja Euroopan Unionille, että uskaltavatko Euroopan Unioni ja Nato tukea Kaliningradia sillä tavalla, että Venäjä olisi kyvytön estämään Kaliningradin itsenäistyminen. Entä, jos Krim ryhtyisi tavoittelemaan irtautumista Venäjästä. Uskaltaisivatko Nato ja Euroopan Unioni tukea Krimiä tavoitteessaan irtautua Venäjästä ja aloittaa olemaan itsenäinen Krimin valtio.
Viimeksi muokattu:
1:30 tähtäin kiinnitetty hiukan heppoisasti
On juu. Tosin tolla tasolla mitä noi ampuu on ihan sama onko koko tähtäintä. Enää en ihmettele miksi mun juksipiippuisessa Baikalissa on perässä nuoli kumpi puoli ylös ja piipussa toinen näyttämässä eteenpäin. Meidän ajokoirakin ampuu paremmin. Jätkiä pelottaa ja hakevat rohkaisua tollasella summittaisella räiskimisellä.
Kiva olis näyttää noille miten osaa kun treenaa parhaimmillaan kymmeniätuhansia laukauksia kiväärillä/vuosi.
Vonka
Supreme Leader
Pitäkööt Kaliningradinsa. Mistä yrittäisivät uuden sataman? Mardu ja Muuga ei varmaan enää käy ja aivan pussin perälle eivät taida haluta jäädä. Sen pohjukan voisi vaikka suluttaa umpeen
TT
Eversti
Oo nyt sen verran kohtelias että kerro itse mitä mieltä olet lähteestä. Nopsalla lukemisella vaikea sanoa kuka söi nötkötit.
TT
Eversti
Mjaaa. Pitkä läppä ja pitääkin lukea loppuun. Mutta näyttäisi menevän siihen sarjaan missä väitetään että Ukrainaa ei ollut ennen Neuvostoliittoa tai ainakaan ennen 1800-luvun tsaareja, ja tuo ei kai pidä kovin monella mittapuulla paikkaansa. (Etpä sinä Vonka moista väittänyt enkä välttämättä ymmärtänyt lukemaani oikein, joten tästä tuonne)
Samses
Ylipäällikkö
Osittain OT ja lukematta ao. tekstiä - se, että Ukrainaa ei olisi ollut ennen 1800-lukua olemassa itsenäisenä poliittisena entiteettinä pitää paikkansa, tai ei pidä, riippuen siitä pidetäänkö edesmennyttä Kiovan suuriruhtinaskuntaa Ukrainan esiasteena vai yhtenä Venäjän nykyisten poliittisten rakenteiden "juurena". Molemmille kannoille on olemassa perusteluja.
Ukraina on syntynyt 1800-luvulla kansakuntana, kuten Suomikin.
Ukrainaa pitää Venäjän poliittinen valtarakennelma Venäjän historiallisena osana, kuten Suomeakin.
Olisiko tästä syytä vetää jotain johtopäätöksiä? Minä vedin jo.
Vonka
Supreme Leader
Jutun pointti on se, että Ukrainaa kurittaa putinilainen nationalismi, joka on paljon mustempaa kuin Neuvostoliitto Ukrainalle koskaan. Teksti sopisi hyvin niille vasemmistolaisille, jotka diggaavat Putleria, koska "Venäjä" on mukamas niin ihana.
Jostain syystä jätit Dmitry Tymchukin nimen pois. Pidän häntä hyvin luotettavana.
Kaverista löytyy tietoa esim. täältä:
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/04/23/how-dmitry-tymchuk-broke-the-russian-blogosphere/
Lyhyt ote alla:
Dmitry Tymchuk is, in fact, a real person. His Facebook posts attract so many shares and so few comments because the ability to comment on his posts is restricted to his friends. (He has almost 80 thousand followers, but just 5 thousand friends.) Since Sannikov’s article was published, Tymchuk has appeared in person for several interviews and conferences. When he granted an interview to Ukraine’s premier Internet television station, Hromadske.TV, the host even poked Tymchuk in the arm, to confirm for viewers that he isn’t an Internet phantom invented by NATO.
Tymchuk has been publishing pro-Ukrainian, anti-Russian memos and opinion pieces for nearly six years. In August 2008, when Russia was at war with Georgia, he wrote that Ukraine should study the conflict, in anticipation of facing future Russia aggression. In December 2008, when Ukraine finally withdrew the last of its armed contingent from the multinational force deployed to Iraq, Tymchuk wrote that Ukraine had gained military experience that would be valuable in future conflicts closer to home.
In other words, Tymchuk is your standard patriotic blogger.
Hänen blogiaan julkaistaan mm. KyivPostissa, linkki alla:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/author/dmitry-tymchuk/
Hän toimii mm. Information Resistancen koordinaattorina
http://sprotyv.info/en/about-us
“Information Resistance” (hereinafter “IR”) – is a non-governmental project that aims to counteract external threats to the informational space of Ukraine in the main areas of military, economic, and energy, as well as the sphere of informational security.
Ja tuo alkuperäinen juttu löytyy myös KyivPostista:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...ms-food-rations-stolen-in-ukraine-350225.html
Ja googlella löytyy lisääkin lähteitä, esim.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/us-food-aid-is-being-sold-on-black-market-websites-in-ukraine
Viimeksi muokattu:
Vaikuttaa hieman epäonnistuneelta laukaisulta , osuu ensin maahan ja lentää sitten 3-4. kerrokseen.
Vonka
Supreme Leader
Remarqueta siteeraten, ei mitään uutta Ukrainan rintamalla. Ilmeisesti ilmasta on kuritettu Slavyanskin separatistitsekkareita useammallakin koneella.
Tuossa on kattavin video eilisestä. Venäläiset tukeutuvat lähitaloihin, toimivat myös katoilta. Tietävät, ettei siviilitaloihin isketä. Teoreettinen kysymys: voisiko hekolla konekivääri olla riittävän tarkka katolle, ettei puhko joka kerroksen ikkunoita?
Tuossa on kattavin video eilisestä. Venäläiset tukeutuvat lähitaloihin, toimivat myös katoilta. Tietävät, ettei siviilitaloihin isketä. Teoreettinen kysymys: voisiko hekolla konekivääri olla riittävän tarkka katolle, ettei puhko joka kerroksen ikkunoita?
Hajoitetun ja nöyryytetyn Berkutin miehiä olisi lähdössä Slavjanskiin.
Määrä ei selviä jutusta.
Vaikea arvioida millaista porukkaa , Lviv:ssä Berkutlaiset pyysivät polvillaan anteeksi kaupunkilaisilta Maidanin tapahtumia.
Jonkinlaisen osa on muuttanut Venäjälle , OMON on tarjonnut töitä.
http://kp.ua/politics/455499-kyevskyi-berkut-brosyly-na-slaviansk
Määrä ei selviä jutusta.
Vaikea arvioida millaista porukkaa , Lviv:ssä Berkutlaiset pyysivät polvillaan anteeksi kaupunkilaisilta Maidanin tapahtumia.
Jonkinlaisen osa on muuttanut Venäjälle , OMON on tarjonnut töitä.
http://kp.ua/politics/455499-kyevskyi-berkut-brosyly-na-slaviansk
Aiempiin ei voi ilmeisesti kommentoidan muuta kuin, että Kiovan on välittömästi lopetettava viattomien siviilien surmaaminen 
!
Kiev's ‘indiscriminate shelling of residential areas’ must be stopped – Russia
Published time: June 03, 2014 01:23
Edited time: June 03, 2014 05:44
Get short URL
Vitaly Churkin, Russia's Ambassador to the United Nations (AFP Photo / Stan Honda)
Download video (25.51 MB)
Conflict, Health, Human rights, Politics, Russia, UN, Ukraine, Violence
The humanitarian situation in Ukraine needs to be addressed immediately, without the usual “theoretical exercises" from the UN Security Council’s “usual suspects," ambassador Vitaly Churkin said after a closed-door meeting on a Russian draft resolution.
Ongoing operation: 5 die in admin HQ blast as fighter jets deployed to Ukraine’s Lugansk
“The draft is not politicized and is of a purely humanitarian nature,” Churkin told reporters in New York, stressing that the document is aimed at “alleviating human suffering.”
“Every day civilians get killed, among them women and children,” Churkin said. “Ukrainian military and paramilitary forces impede the peaceful population, leaving besieged cities or sending their children to safe places. Buses of children are turned back.”
A swift reaction is absolutely necessary, Churkin said, as Kiev continues its full scale military operation in southeastern Ukraine with “heavy and indiscriminate shelling of residential areas” using both artillery and aviation.
Just on Tuesday alone, at least five civilians were killed in a Ukrainian air raid on a local administrative building in Lugansk, the aftermath of which was shown in numerous horrific videos posted online. [WARNING: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC AND SHOCKING] Yet authorities and pro-Kiev media deny the incident, even claiming that self-defense forces were behind the attack on their own headquarters.
Churkin said the new draft demands “an immediate cessation of hostilities, urges parties to commit themselves to sustainable ceasefire, and calls for the establishment by the parties of humanitarian corridors in order to allow the civilian population to leave safely and to ensure humanitarian assistance.”
Firefighters put out fire that broke out in the building of Lugansk regional administration after the air attack by Ukrainian air force. (RIA Novosti / Evgeny Biyatov)
The draft emphasizes the Geneva statement of April 17, which urges all parties in Ukraine to refrain from “violence, intimidation, or provocative actions,” as well as OSCE roadmap for Ukraine that stresses a need for dialogue and calls for a ceasefire and de-escalation of tensions.
Churkin said the draft was submitted because “we believe for the situation in Ukraine not to deteriorate further, something needs to be done now in order to stop the violence.”
He cited the joint statement by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which expressed “extreme concern about the humanitarian situation resulting from the current crisis in southeastern Ukraine” and called on everyone to allow Red Cross workers and volunteers to perform their humanitarian duties.
‘Usual suspects’ see no humanitarian crisis
Yet some of the council’s members seemed to be deliberately trying to stall any real action, he added.
The “usual suspects” in the Security Council are “showing no urgency” when it comes to dealing with the escalation of the Ukrainian conflict, Churkin said.
The Russian envoy said that while the Ukraine crisis was developing, “every time there was procrastination, every time there was a delay of stopping and preventing” further escalation of the conflict. Instead, Churkin said the West often views Ukraine's turmoil as a “theoretical exercise.”
“How come we talk all the time, as you know, theoretically about the need of preventing diplomacy, about the need to stop conflict, and then some colleagues sit in the Council and sort of shake their heads and say, 'Well, maybe they are doing the right thing, this military thing, they have the right to do that.' Looking for various legal frames for this kind of an attitude is wrong. It is our duty to stop the conflict as quickly as possible, to try to stop violence as quickly as possible,” he said.
A member of the local self-defense forces covers the body of a person killed during the air attack on the building of Lugansk regional administration by Ukrainian air force. (RIA Novosti / Evgeny Biyatov)
One of the apparent suspects – the US State Department – has called the Russian draft resolution “hypocritical,” blaming Moscow for instigating the unrest in Ukraine.
“It is hypocritical of the Russian leadership to call for an end to violence and the creation of humanitarian corridors when, at the same time, armed irregular forces are entering Ukraine from Russia, weapons are being brought illegally from Russia into Ukraine, Russian-backed separatists are attacking new targets and holding OSCE monitoring teams hostage, and Russia is doing nothing to stop these activities. So if they are going to call for or would support a reduction in tensions and a de-escalation, it would be more effective for them to end those activities,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said at a daily press briefing.
When confronted by AP reporter Matthew Lee about photographic evidence of “severe destruction and civilian – at least what appear to be – civilian deaths,” Psaki replied that she stands by previous statements that the US has no concerns about Kiev's military actions in southeastern Ukraine.
Meanwhile, Churkin said that some of the 15 members of the Security Council do support Russia's initiative.
“There were some positive reactions from some members of the Council. However, others were asking so many questions that if we were to try to answer them then we would be talking about things for weeks,” he said, adding that “We have not yet decided what out next move is going to be in terms of working on this resolution.”
British Ambassador to the UN Mark Lyall Grant and his French counterpart, Gerard Araud, claimed there are key elements missing from the new draft.
“We must be clear that the crisis in Ukraine is a political security crisis. It's not a humanitarian crisis,” Lyall Grant told reporters.
“There were things missing like the reference to the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine for instance, the right of Ukraine to defend its territorial integrity,” said Araud, adding that a UN report on the situation is needed because he is unaware that there is a “major crisis” in Ukraine.
Earlier on Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that despite Western assurance that Ukraine's turmoil will be reversed after its May 25 presidential election, “everything is happening in exactly the opposite way.”
!Kiev's ‘indiscriminate shelling of residential areas’ must be stopped – Russia
Published time: June 03, 2014 01:23
Edited time: June 03, 2014 05:44
Get short URL
Vitaly Churkin, Russia's Ambassador to the United Nations (AFP Photo / Stan Honda)
Download video (25.51 MB)
Conflict, Health, Human rights, Politics, Russia, UN, Ukraine, Violence
The humanitarian situation in Ukraine needs to be addressed immediately, without the usual “theoretical exercises" from the UN Security Council’s “usual suspects," ambassador Vitaly Churkin said after a closed-door meeting on a Russian draft resolution.
Ongoing operation: 5 die in admin HQ blast as fighter jets deployed to Ukraine’s Lugansk
“The draft is not politicized and is of a purely humanitarian nature,” Churkin told reporters in New York, stressing that the document is aimed at “alleviating human suffering.”
“Every day civilians get killed, among them women and children,” Churkin said. “Ukrainian military and paramilitary forces impede the peaceful population, leaving besieged cities or sending their children to safe places. Buses of children are turned back.”
A swift reaction is absolutely necessary, Churkin said, as Kiev continues its full scale military operation in southeastern Ukraine with “heavy and indiscriminate shelling of residential areas” using both artillery and aviation.
Just on Tuesday alone, at least five civilians were killed in a Ukrainian air raid on a local administrative building in Lugansk, the aftermath of which was shown in numerous horrific videos posted online. [WARNING: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC AND SHOCKING] Yet authorities and pro-Kiev media deny the incident, even claiming that self-defense forces were behind the attack on their own headquarters.
Churkin said the new draft demands “an immediate cessation of hostilities, urges parties to commit themselves to sustainable ceasefire, and calls for the establishment by the parties of humanitarian corridors in order to allow the civilian population to leave safely and to ensure humanitarian assistance.”
Firefighters put out fire that broke out in the building of Lugansk regional administration after the air attack by Ukrainian air force. (RIA Novosti / Evgeny Biyatov)
The draft emphasizes the Geneva statement of April 17, which urges all parties in Ukraine to refrain from “violence, intimidation, or provocative actions,” as well as OSCE roadmap for Ukraine that stresses a need for dialogue and calls for a ceasefire and de-escalation of tensions.
Churkin said the draft was submitted because “we believe for the situation in Ukraine not to deteriorate further, something needs to be done now in order to stop the violence.”
He cited the joint statement by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which expressed “extreme concern about the humanitarian situation resulting from the current crisis in southeastern Ukraine” and called on everyone to allow Red Cross workers and volunteers to perform their humanitarian duties.
‘Usual suspects’ see no humanitarian crisis
Yet some of the council’s members seemed to be deliberately trying to stall any real action, he added.
The “usual suspects” in the Security Council are “showing no urgency” when it comes to dealing with the escalation of the Ukrainian conflict, Churkin said.
The Russian envoy said that while the Ukraine crisis was developing, “every time there was procrastination, every time there was a delay of stopping and preventing” further escalation of the conflict. Instead, Churkin said the West often views Ukraine's turmoil as a “theoretical exercise.”
“How come we talk all the time, as you know, theoretically about the need of preventing diplomacy, about the need to stop conflict, and then some colleagues sit in the Council and sort of shake their heads and say, 'Well, maybe they are doing the right thing, this military thing, they have the right to do that.' Looking for various legal frames for this kind of an attitude is wrong. It is our duty to stop the conflict as quickly as possible, to try to stop violence as quickly as possible,” he said.
A member of the local self-defense forces covers the body of a person killed during the air attack on the building of Lugansk regional administration by Ukrainian air force. (RIA Novosti / Evgeny Biyatov)
One of the apparent suspects – the US State Department – has called the Russian draft resolution “hypocritical,” blaming Moscow for instigating the unrest in Ukraine.
“It is hypocritical of the Russian leadership to call for an end to violence and the creation of humanitarian corridors when, at the same time, armed irregular forces are entering Ukraine from Russia, weapons are being brought illegally from Russia into Ukraine, Russian-backed separatists are attacking new targets and holding OSCE monitoring teams hostage, and Russia is doing nothing to stop these activities. So if they are going to call for or would support a reduction in tensions and a de-escalation, it would be more effective for them to end those activities,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said at a daily press briefing.
When confronted by AP reporter Matthew Lee about photographic evidence of “severe destruction and civilian – at least what appear to be – civilian deaths,” Psaki replied that she stands by previous statements that the US has no concerns about Kiev's military actions in southeastern Ukraine.
Meanwhile, Churkin said that some of the 15 members of the Security Council do support Russia's initiative.
“There were some positive reactions from some members of the Council. However, others were asking so many questions that if we were to try to answer them then we would be talking about things for weeks,” he said, adding that “We have not yet decided what out next move is going to be in terms of working on this resolution.”
British Ambassador to the UN Mark Lyall Grant and his French counterpart, Gerard Araud, claimed there are key elements missing from the new draft.
“We must be clear that the crisis in Ukraine is a political security crisis. It's not a humanitarian crisis,” Lyall Grant told reporters.
“There were things missing like the reference to the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine for instance, the right of Ukraine to defend its territorial integrity,” said Araud, adding that a UN report on the situation is needed because he is unaware that there is a “major crisis” in Ukraine.
Earlier on Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that despite Western assurance that Ukraine's turmoil will be reversed after its May 25 presidential election, “everything is happening in exactly the opposite way.”
Vonka
Supreme Leader
OMONin olivatkin, ennen kuin siitä tuli Berkut. Mutta ei siltä ajalta varmaan ketään enää ole palveluksessa.
Jumalavita,
kaikki venäläiset lehdet paasaavat samaa valhetta siitä, että Kiovan hävittäjä ampui ohjuksen tappaen siviilejä. Varoittavat vielä järkyttävistä kuvista ihmisistä. Vihaa lietsotaan oikein ammatillisesti!
http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/ussr/03-06-2014/127718-Luhansk-0/#.U4125Ci9S3o
