P: I spent three months in Chornobayivka,
rank - Major, position - head of the RKhBZ service of the base.
D: Who will pick up the phone?
P: Friends.
D: And your wife or parents?
P: I divorced my wife two years ago.
I don't remember my parents phone number.
D: I'll see if I can find it.
V: We are citizen journalists,
Accordingly, we have a voluntary conversation.
Do you voluntarily consent to the recording and publication?
P: Yes, I do.
V: Please introduce yourself.
P: Gruzdev Pavel Nikolaevich,
date of birth June 16, 1976.
V: Where are you from?
P: Kostroma region, the city of Nerekhta.
V: What military unit are you from?
P: Military unit 7 military base, Abkhazia.
V: Title, position.
P: Rank - major, position - head of the RKhBZ service of the base.
V: Do you believe in infected birds, who were supposed to fly out of Ukraine and infect all the Slavs?
P: No, I don't.
V: But you, as the head of the RKhBZ service, should understand a little something about this.
P: I understand something, but it's unlikely. And I don't believe that something infected can be sent anywhere.
V: Do you know, according to Russian propaganda, we didn't just have to infect these birds, but also to correct their flight in a certain direction.
P: But that's impossible.
V: Maybe not possible. Turn on the video where they say that? Or do you believe me?
P: I don't believe in that.
V: We continue our conversation for now. Tell us, please, how did you enter Ukraine, how did you get captured?
P: I went to Ukraine together with my unit on March 22, to Donetsk.
In Donetsk, we moved from the loading station to the Sparta training ground, where we stayed from 2 to 4 days, I do not remember already.
Waiting for special instructions.
V: While you were waiting for special instructions, what happened?
P: We were at the Sparta training ground:
formations, briefings. There were no shootings. After that, a part of our unit was sent to Chornobayivka, where they sent me to corps 22, and the another part of unit went under the command of the 49th army.
Chkalov area. I don't remember cities or towns.
I spent three months in Chornobayivka, basically I was an assistant to the head of the RKhBZ service, papers, in a word.
Waybills, reports I made in a day. Reports are mainly that the infection has not been detected, the personnel are safe, and are in the regions. Well, and about losses in general.
V: What were the losses?
P: Basically, they flew in positions - shells, mines, RHBZ property burned, these are gas masks, protective equipment - raincoats, stockings and gloves.
V: What about personnel?
P: In terms of personnel, there were basically no losses, because there are very few of them in the RKhBZ, and they were located in areas near command posts, where they are mainly located in the rear.
V: What else did you see in Chornobayivka besides writing your reports?
P: It’s not sweet in Chornobaiivka, arrivals every day, starting from evening until morning, and during the day, there were also arrivals from Andriyivka. And at the airport of Kherson, and where the place of my standing was.
We hiding from everything.
V: But you can only tell that you burned gas masks, and you haven’t seen anything else, you don’t know and you can’t tell?
P: I compiled reports from other reports, what was given to me, I collected a general summary and sent this report to higher authorities. Basically, what I did for three months.
V: What do you know about the loss of equipment,
the loss of personnel in general?
P: In general, I didn’t delve into it, and they didn’t bring it to me.
V: In addition, what did they bring that you yourself know, heard?
P: I did not delve into, I only delved into my field of activity, and there is nothing to say about the other. Somewhere they set fire to some equipment, some KamAZ turned over, the tank went out of order. The command did not bring this data to us, basically we brought it.
V: What do you see around you every day?
P: Every day I saw around me only a computer in which I made reports, recalculated how much of what else the personnel had.
V: And where did you have a workplace, an office?
P: In a working car, KamAZ.
V: And you lived right there? Is it in a van?
P: Yes, like kung, I lived on a chair, We sat down and slept and worked.
V: And how long did you sleep on the chair like that?
P: Three months, until one part of our unit, which was attached to the 22nd corps, the commanders took over completely.
V: They were taken away and what are you next?
P: We returned to our unit on Chkalov*. There I was puzzled to engage in the service of the troops - This is the protection and defense of some object. I guarded the facility, posted posts around the clock, brought passwords and everything. My task was just that.
V: What did you see around you when you got out of your car?
P: Dugouts, trenches, so that the personnel could take cover.
V: Were there personnel in the dugouts and trenches?
P: Of course.
V: Were there 200s and 300s?
P: I never saw anyone.
V: You were in one place and they didn't go anywhere?
P: I didn’t go anywhere, I had the first report at five o’clock and the second report at 5 o’clock in the evening.
It was the settlement of Chornobayivka near the airport.
V: And you stayed there from and to?
P: I stayed there from April 8 to July 10, after which I left there, the command took me away.
V: What happened within a radius of two or three kilometers from you, do you know?
P: I didn’t know, that’s why I didn’t even go to the front line.
V: But there were constant arrivals?
P: Yes, and 300 meters away, and flew to the placewhere food was prepared for all personnel, where three pieces of equipment were damaged. After Chornobaiivka, I arrived at Chkalov, where I was puzzled to engage in the service of the troops - security and defense of the facility, where I had 9 people under my command, I distributed by the day, at which points to serve.
V: The 200s and 300s weren't there either? There were no fights?
P: The 200th and 300th were not there either, there were no battles.
V: Were there also arrivals?
P: There were arrivals.
V: On Chkalov - is it also in Chornobayivka? Or is it a village?
P: On Chkalov - this is where the kindergarten, the school.
V: But is it a separate settlement?
P: Chkalovo, village. (eli aiempi Chkalov on tämä)
V: Did you communicate with the locals?
P: No, the locals didn't even didn't come to us.
V: They should have come up to say thank you.
P: This has never happened.
V: Why do you think?
P: I think we entered their territory uninvited. Before us, as they say, everything was fine and good.
V: Who is speaking?
P: Rumor has it.
V: I confirm to you, yes, before you everything was fine, before February 24 everything was still good.
P: In connection with the arrival of the Russian army, chaos began, and, as they say, looting.
V: But you, of course, did not participate in anything like that?
P: I can pass the test.
V: You must pass. What did you eat?
P: We ate what we cooked
V: Did you have your own kitchen, or did they bring food to you?
P: We had our own kitchen.
V: But did they bring you provisions?
P: The head of the food service handled it.
There was no need for this.
V: And where did you live on Chkalov?
P: At the MTF.
V: What is it? What does it look like? Factory, farm?
P: Farm.
V: Did you continue to live in equipment?
P: No, not in equipment. Who equips the place as he likes, somebody is in the hay, somebody is in the trench.
V: So you camped out in the open air?
P: There is no open air, there is a big hangar.
V: Was there a trench right in the hangar or what?
P: The trenches around the hangars were dug,
and the equipment was hiding there, and personnel.
V: That is, in the middle of a residential area
in a farmer's hangar, you hid equipment?
P: Basically, this equipment was staff.
V: Was it military equipment?
P: Yes.
V: I bring to the attention of Amnesty international, please in the village, here is a living Russian military man sitting, equipment and Russian military were in the area of a residential area,
in the farmer's hangar, where the equipment was hidden.
Does this fact bother you?
It's just that Amnesty international recently noticed Ukrainian equipment in the village, and was very indignant.
P: I will correct that it is not in the hangar itself, but around the hangar.
V: It changes the situation radically.
This means no longer a settlement, it means no longer military equipment.
Amnesty international, they had equipment not in the hangar, but around the hangar.
Please note that this is Russian military equipment in the Ukrainian village near the hangar.
Because it also happens that Ukrainian equipment in Ukraine is deployed where it needs it, because we are defending ourselves.
And you are not worried that the people who came to us from Russia, located in settlements, here you have no complaints.
But you have claims against our military and in our settlements.
Guys, name yourself "Amnesty Gazprom international",
because you can't ignore investors, you need to work out.
Sorry, this is a lyrical digression for the audience.
... Settled down, ate, drank.
P: Yes, then I was sent by order to a stronghold near Lozove, where I had to hold out for two or three days. I hold out 5, on the 5th day I was taken prisoner.
V: Why did you have to hold out and what was your task?
P: The task was set by the commander to hold out for 2-3 days, after which we will be replaced by other servicemen. Monitor the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
V: Have you seen them?
P: It was not in the review, which was reported hourly on radio channels, that no one was observed, everything is going according to plan.
V: "The special operation is going according to plan."
V: You were supposed to be replaced, but you didn't stay there until then?
P: Yes. On the radio it was heard that on that day, the 31st, we had to change. We went there on July 27 in the morning, and on July 31, it was known through the channels that they should already change us after 6 pm, or when it begins to get dark, or early in the morning.
But it turned out that we were captured by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
V: You should not be a military man, but broadcast on television fairy tales for small children in the evenings. You talk so monotonously We're having our first conversation today, and I'm almost asleep. The conversation goes on for about half an hour, and here is the most interesting part:
should have seen, but did not see, because they were captured by the AFU.
Can you tell us how it happened?
P: On this day, on the 31st, we just received food, water, We were without water for about two or three days. I really wanted some water, and tea and coffee to drink, but arrivals began, birds-quadrocopter fly.
I reported this to the command, the command said to take cover,so that no one notices us.
V: Did these birds-quadrocopter fly then for the first time that day?
P: No, they fly regularly, this has always been reported.
V: Did they drop something?
P: Dropped. Once flew right next to our trench. Of course, all the servicemen who were with me were frightened. After this, I set the task for all servicemen not to even look out, until it's all over, until silence comes. But on this day until the 31st, when we received provisions, water, excitement, arrivals began, quadrocopters began to fly, I gave the command to the militias in the bunker to cook food there.
V: Why militias?
P: I was with the militias.
V: Did you command "LDNR"?
P: Yes.
D: Did you have many subordinates?
P: 15 people initially. We arrived at lunchtime on the 27th, we were started shell, one was immediately wounded in the arm, and right through the cheek.
V: Is it already in the last place?
P: At the beginning.
P: At a point near Lozove stronghold after Chornobayivka. On July 27, they took us to a strong point, they told us to hold out for two or three days and we will be exchanged for other military personnel,
as I heard, from the Airborne Forces. But on the very first day we were brought that this place is heavily shelled, to be on the alert and be close to shelters.
On the first day, the 27th, I had one 300th, shrapnel in his hand and cheek, he was immediately evacuated the next day. And on the 31st, after the provisions were brought to us, we first sat for a smoke, and around 7:30 the selling began, but always want to eat, I gave the command put one observer somewhere 30-40 meters from the trench, and everyone is in a trench. The arrivals continued for about half an hour, after which shouts were heard like “Go out one at a time without any sudden movements, you don’t have to do anything if you want to stay alive.”
V: How did they get so close to you?
P: Probably, they had a cunning move after this shelling - to immediately go in.
V: So you had one standing watching.
P: The one who watched turned out to be the 200th. He was initially shot as an observer, because I also saw sniper rifles from the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a silencer. I think that he did not manage to warn us with a shot upwards or a shout. The place was visible. I think that probably happened because he is not among us. When we were taken prisoner, we were told that yours is still there and has not yet been taken away.
V: What was his last name?
P: I don’t know the last name, because these are not my military personnel, and the "DPR" servicemen, militia, from the 27th regiment, there are eight people with me now, all are alive and well, are in captivity in Ukraine.
V: I promised to show you about the birds. See.
VIDEO: It turned out that bacteriological weapons were still being prepared there,
which was tested on Ukrainian volunteers”.
V: Do you know what I like most about this phase? "It revealed". Who is revealed?
He slept, was revealed to him or what? How should the viewer perceive it?
VIDEO: And another plus to the fact that the birds were infected -
the trajectory of the flight through Russia was calculated.”
B: It's not my idea, it's not a comic show.
P: I heard it for the first time.
V: That's not all, now you will learn the most important thing.
VIDEO: This is an absolutely fascist crime against the Slavic ethnos as such.
V: That is, it didn’t just turn out that the birds were tested, pumped up with something infected,
and all this was tested on Ukrainian volunteers, some kind of phantasmagoria,
not only it was necessary to calculate the flight path, but it was an absolutely fascist attempt
destroy, exterminate the Slavic ethnic group.
You have self-respecting analysts, experts discussed this, that we were going to, somehow these birds had to fly to you
and destroy the Slavic ethnic group, also in relation to geography.
That is, they were not supposed to go beyond these borders, but we also have Slavs, in Poland, etc.
Do you believe in these birds?
P: No, I don't.
V: Do you believe that Ukraine was going to attack Russia and Belarus at the same time?
P: No, I don't.
V: How would you comment on such a phrase,
This is radio "Komsomolskaya Pravda".
VIDEO: Sabotage was at the initial stage simply at all levels.
The head of the main utility company…
V: This is some Russian military man telling him,
that in some point of the settlement, which was occupied by Russia,
some head, in his opinion, was sabotaging,
in fact, he was just trying to destroy something,
so that it does not fall into the hands of the invaders.
VIDEO: Destroyed all electronic control units, the equipment is unique, there are no spare parts.
Can you tell me if he was shot or not? He managed to escape.
Were family members captured? Didn't make it either? It's a pity.
V: And so on, that is, the Russian official media, presenter, sincerely regrets the live broadcast, that some Ukrainian was not shot and his family was not caught and taken somewhere to the Gulag. Please tell me what are the actions of Russia, the Russian army, Russian propaganda differ from the actions of Nazi Germany and propaganda of Nazi Germany during World War II?
P: I can’t say that, in principle, it probably doesn’t differ in anything.
They entered the wrong territory without permission, we are fighting.
V: Do you know that you, like in Nazi Germany at one time, cannot tell the truth? For example, a war cannot be called a war. If you call a special operation a war, this is a term. If you condemn anything related to this so-called special operation in any way, this is a term. If you come out with a placard “no to fascism” - this is the protocol.
P: I don't know, I haven't heard.
V: These are the facts.
I didn’t make it up out of my head and I’m sitting here telling you.
There is a selection for everything.
P: We weren't told that.
V: That is, you live in a country and do not own what is happening there in principle. I will enlighten you about what is happening in your country.
The guy came out with an empty piece of paper. People know that they can't say anything at all to such an extent,
that they just come out with an empty piece of paper, to show that I can, I have the right to at least just stand with an empty piece of paper.
Of course, I understand that a law has been passed in Russia, according to which one cannot stand with an empty piece of paper, because this is considered a single picket.
So tomorrow a law may come out that you must hand over your children into slavery somewhere. Laws must somehow correspond to the constitution, probably
and in the constitution you seem to have freedom of speech and democracy or not? Just how can a person be banned just go out and stand in the city center with an empty piece of paper?
There are a lot of these videos. There are people, they go out, they have “Two words” written on them. Here is a quote from "War and Peace" - a protocol was drawn up for him.
But Putin can say this phrase, but he can’t. But a resident of Novosibirsk was detained for a poster: "We defeated that fascism - we will defeat this one."
Poster “No to fascism!” - the person was detained, and the Russian court drew up a protocol. That is, Russia is already at the official level,
seems to recognize itself as a fascist state, because you want to know if there is fascism in the state. Come out with a poster “No to fascism!” - you will know right away.
At the very beginning of this whole story, when Russian troops entered Kyiv, they bombed a small shop of one of our subscribers,
he said "I don't need those cigarettes anymore" he passes these cigarettes to you. I give everyone a pack, he no longer has a store.
And you yourself will thank a person for cigarettes? Or do you not need them?
P: Needed. Thanks for the cigarettes.
V: Are you an occupier?
P: It turns out the occupier.
V: You just did not find any differences between the army of Nazi Germany and yours. They said that everything corresponds to one another. Now I ask in a different way, are you an occupier, It would seem that the answer is unambiguous, but you say “it turns out". It doesn't work, it just is. Pass what you can now.
P: I want to convey to my relatives, friends, command, that I am in captivity in Ukraine, I am treated well, regular medical check-ups
feed, wash. Washed yesterday, thank you very much. Tell all my relatives that I'm fine. I hope that they will exchange me, I will return home and this will all be over.
V: Do you know that in addition to this topic about birds, that we were to attack Russia and Belarus, There was also a theme that there were some Nazis here. Have you seen the Nazis?
P: I didn't see it.
V: But at the same time, you just do not differ from them, at least you did not find any differences.
P: I didn't find it.
V: Maybe you saw NATO members here? Because now a new manual, Russia is no longer at war with the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but at war with NATO.
P: I didn't see it either.
V: Did you go to Ukraine again to fight?
P: No way.
V: And if you were now returned to the time when you were sent here, what would you do?
P: If I had known what would happen here, I would not have gone.
V: What did you think would happen here?
P: We came to strengthen the borders of the "LPR" and the "DPR".
V: Yes, there are no "LNR" and "DNR". There are Lugansk and Donetsk regions of Ukraine, a sovereign state. It was you who invented yourself, put puppets there, whose faces no longer fit into the screen, like these Pushilins,
and they decided for themselves, fantasized that there are some kind of LNR, DNR.
P: I definitely wouldn't go here if I knew everything.
D: Before the interview, we told you that we have a queue of publications, we publish one video per day. Do you think what you told us is it worthy to publish tomorrow?
P: You know better.
D: It’s just that we know a lot about Chernobaevka from eyewitnesses and other people who told me, you are all somehow sluggish.
P: About Chernobaevka, I said everything that I did.
D: We were told that KamAZ trucks were loading corpses, yours.
P: I didn't see it and I don't even know where it came from.
D: These are the same as you, and prisoners of war.
P: Are they cracking that they saw cars loading 200s?
D: They loaded 200, which then left, took out.
It's just that in Chernobaevka at the airport many columns were broken many times, a lot of equipment.
P: Maybe it was before me, probably. I heard that before me it was very hot there in this Chernobaevka. And when I arrived, when I was seconded to this unit, I did not see this.
Yes, there were constant arrivals and air defense also worked, many missiles hit, but mostly it was artillery, MLRS flew in, three pieces of equipment were mowed down near PCBs.
Restored, not restored, I don't know but that I myself regularly ran about four times to take cover in a shelter.
D: The person we spoke to said that the name was made up - black hole. You gave the name to our Chernobaevka.
P: I didn't give such a name to a black hole, and I don't know it. But before me, when I arrived in Chernobaevka, there was a lot. Around the area as I drove through the airport where there is a take-off, there is a lot of burned-out equipment. But that was before me, when it was very hot there.
D: How many technicians have you seen?
P: 10 units exactly, it's just a glimpse, and if you go to count, there, of course, at times, dozens more.
V: The truth doesn't always line up with mainstream opinion, because when they hear Chernobaevka, they want to hear a story where everything explodes.
D: I'm talking about the one who told how they were taken out by KamAZ, loaded with Urals.
V: He didn't see it in person.
P: Maybe it was, but I did not see the consequences.
