Korean Sota Osa II ?

Mortti kirjoitti:
Mistä kieltämättä tulee mieleen, että Moon & Trump ovat aika idiootteja, jos tosiaan ovat ajoittaneet sotaharjoituksen tällaiseen hetkeen. :facepalm:

Tietenkin harjoituksesta lienee sovittu jo aikapäiviä sitten, mutta siitä huolimatta... Vaatii aika omituista pelisilmää pitää yhteiset sotaharjoitukset juuri vähän sitä ennen, kun olisi tarkoitus puhua toisen osapuolen asevarustelun supistamisesta sekä rauhansopimuksesta. Tuskin tämä Trumpin ja Kimin tapaamista kokonaan torpedoi (PK:llakin kuitenki vähän turhan paljon pelissä), mutta silti aivan turhaa jo valmiiksi huteran veneen keikuttamista. USA:n ja Etelä-Korean asevoimien valmius ei yhden sotaharjoituksen skippaamiseen (tai siirtämiseen) kaadu.
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Tuo harjoitus on yksi osa pelistä ja varmasti harkittu ja tarkoitus osoittaa voimaa, me ollaan totuttu Obaman ja vasemmiston lepsuiluun jossa anteeksi pyydellen kerrotaan olemme hyviä ja kilttejä mitä haluatte saatte kaikki ja vielä vähän enemmän.
 
pikkusimo kirjoitti:
Tuo harjoitus on yksi osa pelistä ja varmasti harkittu ja tarkoitus osoittaa voimaa, me ollaan totuttu Obaman ja vasemmiston lepsuiluun jossa anteeksi pyydellen kerrotaan olemme hyviä ja kilttejä mitä haluatte saatte kaikki ja vielä vähän enemmän.
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Obama ei ollut lepsu. Isä Aurinkoinen sieltä vasemmiston extreme siivestä teloituttu niin paljon ihmisiä että sanonta "siperia opettaa" tuli osaksi suomenkieltä.
 
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Pohjois-Korea on uhannut vetäytyä huipputapaamisesta Yhdysvaltain kanssa. Pohjois-Korean varaulkoministerin Kim Kye-gwanin mukaan maalla ei ole kiinnostusta osallistua tapaamiseen, jos Yhdysvallat vaatii Pohjois-Korealta yksipuolista ydinaseriisuntaa.

Varaulkoministerin kommentit on välittänyt Pohjois-Korean uutistoimisto KCNA.

– Emme ole enää kiinnostuneita neuvotteluista, joissa olisi kyse vain siitä, että meidät yritetään ajaa nurkkaan ja pakottaa luopumaan ydinaseistamme. Tämä pakottaisi meidät harkitsemaan uudestaan, voimmeko hyväksyä Pohjois-Korean ja Yhdysvaltain huipputapaamista, Kim Kye-gwan sanoi KCNA:n mukaan.

Yhdysvaltain presidentin Donald Trumpin ja Pohjois-Korean johtajan Kim Jong-unin on ollut tarkoitus tavata 12. kesäkuuta Singaporessa.

Kim Kye-gwan kritisoi Trumpin turvallisuusneuvonantajan John Boltonin ja muiden amerikkalaisviranomaisten kommentteja, joissa on esitetty, että Pohjois-Korean pitäisi seurata niin kutsuttua "Libyan mallia" ja toteuttaa täydellinen, todistettavissa oleva ja peruuttamaton ydinaseriisunta.
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https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10207042

Jos olisin PKn tirehtööri en edes neuvottelisi jenkkien kanssa. Ainoastaan naapurien kanssa. Ne on loppu kädässä tärkeämpiä kuin trumputtimelle puhuminen.

Baik Tae-hyun, a spokesman for South Korea’s unification ministry, described Pyongyang’s decision as “regrettable” and said it ran counter to the “spirit and purpose” of the Panmunjom declaration agreed by Kim and the South Korean president, Moon Jae-in, last month.

Baik urged the North to swiftly return to the talks but would not speculate on whether the North’s move would affect next month’s planned meeting between Kim and Trump.

KCNA said the manoeuvres represented a “flagrant challenge” to the joint declaration by Kim and Moon at a summit at the “truce village” of Panmunjom on the dividing line between their countries in April.

The two leaders agreed to completely “cease all hostile acts against each other in every domain, including land, air and sea, that are the source of military tension and conflict”.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/15/north-korea-talks-cancelled-trump-summit-latest

“What we have to go on is what Kim Jong-un has said before, that he understands and appreciates the importance to the United States of having these joint exercises,” Nauert said. “We have had no formal or informal notification of anything.”

“We will continue to plan the meeting.”

Kim Hyun-wook, a professor at the Korea national diplomatic academy in Seoul, said: “North Korea knows that cancelling the (Trump-Kim) summit would not be good for its own interests, and not good for US interests either. But the North Korean regime cannot accept US demands for denuclearisation without first receiving guarantees about its security. Let’s see what Trump does about this.”
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Viimeksi muokattu:
ctg kirjoitti:
Obama ei ollut lepsu. Isä Aurinkoinen sieltä vasemmiston extreme siivestä teloituttu niin paljon ihmisiä että sanonta "siperia opettaa" tuli osaksi suomenkieltä.
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Myös Kiinan ja P-Korean vasemmistohallinnot eivät vaikuta mitenkään erityisen lepsuilta.

Kuitenkin, suomalaisilla oli enemmän kokemuksia Siperiasta ennen Stalinin valtakautta:
Kuka sanoi lentävän lausahduksen: "Kyllä Siperia opettaa"

Sanontaa käytettiin jo tsaarinajan Suomessa - sen ensimmäinen lausuja ei ole tiedossa. Sanonnalla "Siperia opettaa" ilmaistaan, että kun tutustuu tosiasioihin, suuret puheet pienenevät.
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http://www.kysy.fi/kysymys/kuka-sanoi-lentavan-lausahduksen-kylla-siperia-opettaa
 
Mortti kirjoitti:
Mistä kieltämättä tulee mieleen, että Moon & Trump ovat aika idiootteja, jos tosiaan ovat ajoittaneet sotaharjoituksen tällaiseen hetkeen. :facepalm:

Tietenkin harjoituksesta lienee sovittu jo aikapäiviä sitten, mutta siitä huolimatta... Vaatii aika omituista pelisilmää pitää yhteiset sotaharjoitukset juuri vähän sitä ennen, kun olisi tarkoitus puhua toisen osapuolen asevarustelun supistamisesta sekä rauhansopimuksesta. Tuskin tämä Trumpin ja Kimin tapaamista kokonaan torpedoi (PK:llakin kuitenki vähän turhan paljon pelissä), mutta silti aivan turhaa jo valmiiksi huteran veneen keikuttamista. USA:n ja Etelä-Korean asevoimien valmius ei yhden sotaharjoituksen skippaamiseen (tai siirtämiseen) kaadu.
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Kim ja PRNK siellä kokeilevat kepillä jäätä, että minkälainen mies tämä Trump on. Trumppihan (ilmeiesti) suostui twiitissään Kim-tapaamiseen ilman, että mitään etukäteisneuvotteluita ja alustavia sopimuksia oli tehty, Suurten Johtajien sitten kokouksessa juhlallisesti allekirjoitettavaksi virallisina versioina.

Näiden kommunistiregiimien ja niiden jälkeläisten kuten Venäjän vanhoja taktiikoitahan on kiristää / huonontaa tilannetta, ja vaatia myönnytyksiä jolla tila palautetaan ennen kiristystä olleeseen tilaan.

Kim esimerkiksi vangitsi pari jenkkiä ihan nyt Trumpin kaudellakin, jotka sitten vapautti "hyväntahdon eleenä" joku aika sitten.

Voi olla, että Trumpin kokematonta hallintoa viedään kuin pässiä narussa vielä ennen kuin mitään summitia saadaan aikaiseksi.
 
P-korean vanha kiukuttelutaktiikka ei toimi Trumppiin. Juuri äsken kommentoi Se on mitä on. Suomeksi vitustako minä mitään tiedän. Ei siihen ukkoon voi purra suuret diplomatian peliliikkeet.
 
ctg kirjoitti:
Obama ei ollut lepsu. Isä Aurinkoinen sieltä vasemmiston extreme siivestä teloituttu niin paljon ihmisiä että sanonta "siperia opettaa" tuli osaksi suomenkieltä.
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Kyllä Obama oli lepsu, nyt kun ei enään ole vallassa kertoo kuinka maata pitää johtaa, toimii kuin juoppo tai saamaton johtaaja potkujen jälkeen näin asioita pitää hoitaa, samanlainen touhu on täällä Halosella ja Tuomiojalla, kun ollaan vallassa ei osata eikä tehdä mitään, mutta kun ei olla vallassa silloin tiedetään miten muiden pitää hommat hoitaa
 
North Korea’s denunciation of John Bolton
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has forced Donald Trump to decide whether to stick with his national security adviser and his hardline tactics, or push ahead with a summit with Kim Jong-un that will provide historic spectacle but an uncertain outcome.

Underlying the plans for the Singapore summit was a fundamental ambiguity over what “complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula” means. For Pyongyang it is a fluid term that means a long-term process of disarmament, involving all major powers, in whose ranks North Korea would henceforward be counted a member.

The Trump administration thought it meant – or wanted it to mean – that Kim was ready to give up the arsenal he had declared complete and operational in January. For his part, the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, who was tasked by Trump to set up the Kim summit, was ready to live with the ambiguity, at least until 12 June, when the unprecedented encounter is due to take place.

In weekend television appearances, Pompeo seemed to blur the US negotiating position, suggesting the aim was to prevent North Korea threatening the US mainland with nuclear weapons, a lower bar that would theoretically permit Pyongyang to retain some warheads as long as they did not build intercontinental missiles.

Ambiguity is not Bolton’s style, however. In his own, competing, TV appearances, he was adamant that North Korea would have to take all its weapons apart and ship the fissile material to the US. It was this, coupled his earlier reference to the “Libya model” – which for Pyongyang summons up the memory of Muammar Gaddafi’s brutalised body being paraded on a truck – that got the regime’s attention.

“It was quite deliberate. We all know how Gaddafi died,” said Jeffrey Lewis, the director of the East Asia nonproliferation programme at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies of Monterey. “You don’t bring up a man’s grisly murder as an inducement.”

Vipin Narang, an associate professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said it was likely to be the bragging that Kim had been forced to the table by Trump’s successful use of “maximum pressure” with sanctions and threats that had stung the Pyongyang regime most.

Kim has portrayed his diplomatic opening as a natural consequence of completing the decades-long project to build a nuclear arsenal.


“The North Koreans were prepared to ignore a lot of what the administration said before the summit, but it was the victory lap before the race that has really set them off,” Narang said.

Bolton has a track record with the North Koreans, who blame him for persuading the George W Bush administration to quit a 1994 nuclear deal, the Agreed Framework. In his memoir, Surrender is Not an Option, Bolton boasts about his success in torpedoing state department efforts to keep talks with Pyongyang alive, deriding the diplomats as appeasers.

At the time, the regime denounced him as “human scum” and a “bloodsucker”, banning him from any bilateral talks. On Wednesday, the first deputy prime minister, Kim Kye-gwan, made it clear that the regime’s antipathy had not mellowed with time, noting “we do not hide our feeling of repugnance towards him”.

Earlier in the week, a western diplomat had predicted that the inevitable compromise at a Kim summit could force a parting of the ways between Trump and his third national security adviser. Trump, who has basked in suggestions he might be eligible for the Nobel peace prize, is clearly keen to keep his appointment in Singapore. The weekend row could now bring his looming dilemma forward.

The White House on Wednesday was hedging its bets, with its spokeswoman pointedly distancing Trump from Bolton’s “Libyan model”.

“Sarah Sanders threw Bolton under a bus this morning,” Lewis said.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/16/trump-north-korea-nuclear-summit-john-bolton
 
pikkusimo kirjoitti:
Kyllä Obama oli lepsu, nyt kun ei enään ole vallassa kertoo kuinka maata pitää johtaa, toimii kuin juoppo tai saamaton johtaaja potkujen jälkeen näin asioita pitää hoitaa, samanlainen touhu on täällä Halosella ja Tuomiojalla, kun ollaan vallassa ei osata eikä tehdä mitään, mutta kun ei olla vallassa silloin tiedetään miten muiden pitää hommat hoitaa
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Pahin mahdollinen skenaario olisi mielestäni se, että Halonen & Tuomioja saisivat paljon aikaan oman ideologiansa mukaisia muutoksia.
 
US President Donald Trump has contradicted his own national security adviser, saying the so-called "Libya model" for denuclearisation is not being pursued with North Korea.

The suggestion by John Bolton angered the North, which threatened to pull out of a summit with Mr Trump next month.

Mr Trump said he still thought a summit would happen.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44158566

As Mr Bolton looked on, the US president said: "The Libyan model isn't a model that we have at all when we're thinking of North Korea."

The deal Mr Trump was considering with Kim Jong-un would be "something where he'd be there, he'd be in his country, he'd be running his country, his country would be very rich.

"If you look at South Korea, this would be really a South Korean model in terms of their industry… They're hard-working, incredible people."

On the planned summit, Mr Trump said: "Nothing has changed on North Korea that we know of. We have not been told anything.

"And if it does that's fine and if it doesn't I think we'll probably have a very successful meeting."
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North Korea has been secretly selling facial recognition technology, fingerprint scanning and other products overseas. That's what researchers at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies found by investigating the country's information technology networks.

According to their recently released report, "North Koreans appear to have marketed virtual private networks (VPNs) and encryption software in Malaysia, sold fingerprint-scanning technology to large Chinese companies and parts of the Nigerian government, produced facial recognition software for law enforcement agencies via front operations, and built websites for myriad individual and corporate clients."

The researchers drew from open source intelligence over a period of months. And they found that through front companies, aliases and freelancing websites, the entities grew so good at concealing their connection to Pyongyang that they amassed unwitting clients "without raising any alarm bells that something is amiss."
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https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ng-facial-recognition-technology-report-finds

Yhdistymisen jälkeen PKsta varmaan tulee tukku turvatuotteita markkinoille.

McAfee reported last November that it found malicious Android files that contained backdoors that were very similar to those used by a North Koren hacking group known as Lazarus. A so-called "advanced persistent threat group" that multiple researchers have tracked for years, Lazarus is credited with the 2014 breach of Sony Pictures that wiped almost a terabyte’s worth of data, a string of attacks on financial institutions (including an $81 million heist of a Bangladeshi bank in 2016), and the unleashing of the Wannacry worm (second attribution here), which shut down hospitals, train stations, and businesses worldwide.

Common traits between Lazarus and the Android malware McAfee reported in November included backdoor files that used the same seed to generate encryption keys and a similar way to communicate with control servers.

In January, McAfee reported finding malicious apps targeting North Korean journalists and defectors. Some of the Korean words found in the control servers weren’t used in South Korea but were used in North Korea. The researchers also found a North Korean IP address in a test log file of some Android devices that connected to accounts used to spread the malware. McAfee said the developers didn’t appear to be connected to any previously known hacking groups. The researchers named the group Sun Team after finding a deleted folder called “sun Team Folder.”

The three apps McAfee reported Thursday contained the same developer email address used for the apps reported in January, a finding that established the same developers were responsible for all of them. Logs for the newer apps also used similar formats and the same abbreviations for various fields as those found in the apps reported in January. The three apps’ descriptions also contained Korean writing that appeared similarly awkward, and a Dropbox account that received pilfered data contained references to Jack Black and other celebrities who appeared on Korean TV.

In an email, McAfee Chief Scientist Raj Samani said company researchers right now believe the Sun Team is probably a separate group than Lazarus. The researchers base that assessment on different methods used in their campaigns. Samani said it’s possible Lazarus and the Sun Team may ultimately prove to be more connected than current evidence establishes. But McAfee researchers said, based on the language found in the Android apps and the cultural references, they strongly suspect that the Sun Team is based in North Korea.

“These features are strong evidence that the actors behind these campaigns are not native South Koreans but are familiar with the culture and language,” McAfee researchers wrote. “These elements are suggestive, though not a confirmation, of the nationality of the actors behind these malware campaigns.”
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https://arstechnica.com/information...google-play-and-facebook-to-infect-defectors/

Ja lisää tietoa PKn valtiollisista. En ole koskaan tavannut taikka puhunut PK hakkerille. Kutina kuitenkin on että heidän kulttuurinsa on tuottanut näitä aivan erillailla kuin meillä länsimaissa taikka kotimaassa. Olisi mielenkiintoista tietää miten he saivat tämän aikaiseksi diktatuurin alla kun normaalisti nämä yksilöt erovat muista melko tavalla.
 
Viimeksi muokattu:
South Korean President Moon Jae-in and U.S. President Donald Trump held discussions on Sunday to ensure that the North Korea-U.S. summit remains on track after North Korea threatened to pull out of the high-level talks.

Moon and Trump spoke over the phone for about 20 minutes, and exchanged their views on North Korea's recent reactions, South Korea's presidential office said without elaborating.

"The two leaders will work closely and unwaveringly for the successful hosting of the North Korea- U.S. summit set on June 12, including the upcoming South Korea-U.S. summit," the presidential official said.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/20/sou...ly-on-summit-after-pyongyangs-about-face.html

a spokesman for North Korea's Red Cross Society demanded on Saturday that South Korea's government should send North Korean female restaurant workers back to their home "without delay" to show the will to improve the inter-Korean ties, the North's Korea Central News agency said.

A dozen North Korean restaurant workers came to South Korea in 2016 from China, and North Korea had urged to send them back claiming they were abducted by the South, even though the South has said the 12 workers decided to defect of their own free will.

Lee Dong-bok, a researcher at New Asia Research Institution, said part of the reason for the North's demands of the repatriation is to divide South Korea's public opinion over the 12 workers.

"It is also to pressure the Moon government to agree to its demand so that South Korea can keep up the momentum for the North Korea-U.S. summit meeting," Lee said.
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Tämä nousi #turpo twiittiketjussa esille. Tämä Kelly on ilmeisesti politiikan professori E-Korean Pusanin yliopistossa, ja arvioi Koreoiden välistä tapaamista seuraavasti (avaa twitterissä niin koko ketju näkyy)

https://twitter.com/x/status/998422440165294081

- Trumpin sodalla uhkailu todella tehosi: Etelä-Korea säikähti tosiaan
- E-Korea kuvasi P-Korean neuvotteluhalukkuutta ja -valmiutta korkeammaksi kuin mitä se on, ja Trumpin kokematon hallinto (ja Trump itse) nielaisi tämän
- Jos joku on tehnyt myönnytyksiä, niin se on sodan uhasta säikähtänyt E-Korea
- P-Korea ja Kim ovat kai lähinnä ottamassa irtopisteet kotiin, kun kerran sellaisia tyrkyllä on. Kimistä saadaan maailmanluokan valtiomies osoittamalla, miten neuvottelee tasavertaisena USA:n presidentin kanssa.
- Niin, siinäpä se.

Oli miten oli, sota Koreoiden välillä olisi kyllä niin hirmuinen vaihtoehto, että toivottavasti jää syttymyttä, ja kokouksesta saadaan kaikki ulos muodollisina voittajina.
 
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Tokyo will dispatch a senior diplomat to Singapore to collect information on the planned summit next month between the United States and North Korea, Japanese government sources said.

Japan aims to use the momentum generated by their improving ties to help resolve the long-standing abduction issue.

The vexing issue involving Japanese kidnapped by Pyongyang in the 1970s and 1980s has prevented the two countries from formally establishing diplomatic ties.
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https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...ingapore-u-s-north-korea-summit/#.WwGeWe4vxhE
 
I was one of a handful of former officials to meet with them when they were just developing their current strategy. Those talks offer the best information we have about how to achieve denuclearization.


What exactly do the North Koreans mean when they say they’re willing to denuclearize? And how exactly would they do so? These are the key mysteries at the heart of the upcoming Trump-Kim summit—and indeed they threatened to derail the whole thing this week when Kim Jong Un objected to National-Security Adviser John Bolton’s vision for it. In a statement attributed to Vice Foreign Minister Kim Kye Gwan, North Korea chastised Bolton for his invocation of the “Libya model” of unilateral denuclearization as a template, noting that the “world knows too well that our country is neither Libya nor Iraq which have met miserable [fates].” The White House quickly walked back Bolton’s remarks.

The exchange did little to clarify how the U.S. plans to achieve denuclearization. But for a group of former U.S. government officials who have been meeting with North Korean officials over the past decade, North Korea’s own plans are anything but hidden. A series of meetings with North Korean officials in 2013, which I attended along with other former U.S. officials, holds valuable clues—and they show that the North Koreans have given a great deal of thought to denuclearization and almost certainly have a concrete plan of action for the upcoming summit, whether the White House does or not.
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https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/20...old-me-about-their-plans/148345/?oref=d-river
 
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