NH90

  • Viestiketjun aloittaja Viestiketjun aloittaja veffeade
  • Aloitus PVM Aloitus PVM
For the Utti Jaeger Regiment’s Helicopter Battalion of the Finnish Defence Forces, flying low-level is the name of the game.
Russia’s war in Ukraine has demonstrated that anything operating higher than a few tens of feet within the ‘A2/AD’ (Anti-Access and Area Denial) bubble is likely to be destroyed very quickly.
 
Tuolla kommenteissa oli hyvä lisätieto:
in part it is absolutely due to mindset but is also down to the ownership of the type certificate which has allowed them to change from a calendar-based maintenance program to a flight-hour based program in partnership with NH.
Sitten pitäisi vielä kuulla miten se vertautuu Patrian Norjan KAMSiin. Eli onko siellä tilanne suomalaisesti vai ruotsalaisesti?
When the magazine feature goes live, the maintenance schedule is discussed quite a lot as the Finns program is very unique
Mutta mitä on tämä? Verticalin mukaan rampin poistoa suunnitellaan?!?!
they seem to be trying to adapt the NH90 to the SOF mission as much as they can — removing the ramp for example
 
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Käsittääkseni Suomalaiset olivat ainakin ensimmäisiä, tiedä sitten jos Norjassakin on järki voittanut ja riittävät luvat saatu. NH:n valmistajan huolto-ohjelma on todella raskas, jos koneella ei lennetä 24/7.
 
Köh. Erään kerran oli NH90 tulossa tekemään noutoa. Kuunneltiin, että heko lähestyy ja vetää n. 2km ohitse länteen. 10min päästä kuuluu hekon ääni kun menee takasin tulosuuntaansa. Menee taas joku 5min, hekon ääni lähestyy ja taas ohitse, 5min myöhemmin ääni kuuluu taas kun palaa tulosuuntaansa. Taas n. 5min myöhemmin kuuluu hekon ääni, lähestyy todella hitaasti.... seurasivat pikkutietä että pääsivät perille.
Kysyttiin, että eksyittekö? Eikun kun käytiin kattomassa tossa yhen tutun kesämökkiä. Hernerokka sumussa....
 
Sittemmin tulleita kiinnostavia lisäkommentteja ym. videoon.
In Belgium, the naval component of the army, likes the heli. The land component does not. It’s capabilities exceed their requirements. It’s too complex for the simple type of missions they fly. It’s an awesome helicopter, but it is costly.

Australia retired its NH90s way ahead of schedule in favor of new Blackhawks and Seahawks, after a fatal crash and after spending $3 billion AUD, yet New Zealand is seeing high service availability and will continue to use its fleet

Each operator has an operating license and is therefore able to create their own maintenance concept. This was recognized and implemented in Finland. While other countries complained about the insufficient point load capacity of the cargo area floor, an additional wooden floor was installed in Finland.
I have always envied Finland for its handling of the maintenance concept.

Think the problems of the maintenance were the typically problems of a relativ new system. In germany we had also very big problems with operational capability but with a new maintenance structure and enough spare parts it seems to be solved now.

It can operate in much worse weather conditions, has a 30% longer endurance compared to metal framed helis, FULLY complies with multiple safety standards all across NATO, 4-axis autopilot, advanced fly by wire (first of it's kind), damage mitigation in it's fram design and blade design (Made to take hits and not fall apart), stealth designed to reduce radar signature. The list goes on.
Sure it is expensive to fly, it is no ordinary cargo heli, it is made for active frontline use, not for having fun, there are cheaper options if people are scared of opening their purse.
 
Otsikko kertonee olennaisen, oikeusjuttuja nostettu puolin ja toisin, taitaa eräskin juristi pitää tätä helikopteria aivan erinomaisena keksintönä.
Liekö Suomessa sitten erilaiset tehtävä parametrit kun täällä ollaan vehkeeseen varmaankin ainoana käyttäjän 100% tyytyväisiä 😉 ne erityisolosuhteet.
 
Liekö Suomessa sitten erilaiset tehtävä parametrit kun täällä ollaan vehkeeseen varmaankin ainoana käyttäjän 100% tyytyväisiä 😉 ne erityisolosuhteet.
Jos luit yllä olevan postauksen, niin tyytyväisiä käyttäjiä ovat Suomen lisäksi ainakin Belgian armeijan laivasto-osa, Uusi-Seelanti ja nykyisin myös Saksa.

Aika helppoa on uskoa twiittikommenteissa olleet maininnat, että NH90 on todella kyvykäs helikopteri, mutta haittapuolena lentotunti maksaa. Suomi tarvitsee kopterin, jolla voi lentää lähellä rintamalinjoja vihollisen IT:n vaikutuspiirissä. NH90 on varmasti tässä käytössä oikea tyyppi.
 
For the Utti Jaeger Regiment’s Helicopter Battalion of the Finnish Defence Forces, flying low-level is the name of the game.
Russia’s war in Ukraine has demonstrated that anything operating higher than a few tens of feet within the ‘A2/AD’ (Anti-Access and Area Denial) bubble is likely to be destroyed very quickly.
Videolta nousui esille muutamia ihan hyviä huomioita:
  • Suomi aloitti tiiviin lentämisen NH90:llä heti, kun kopterit oli saatu IOC-valmiuteen, ei vasta FOC-vaiheessa. Näin kopterin alkuvaiheen ongelmat tulivat tutuiksi ja suomalaiset pystyivät niihin puuttumaan.
  • kuormamestari on teknisesti koulutettu, mikä helpottaa päivittäistä ylläpitoa ja koptereiden hajautettavuutta. Olen itsekin yhdessä harjoituksessa ihmetellyt, miten kevyellä huolto-organisaatiolla NH90 toimi kolmen päivän ajan tässä harjoituksessa.
  • kopterin ELSO-kykyjä kehutaan videolla
  • muutenkin videolta välittyy luottamus ja tyytyväisyys kopukkaan, samaa viestiä tuntuu tulevan aika usein suomalaisilta useassa yhteydessä.
 
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Sitä ei voi tosin kieltää, etteikö valtiovarainiminsteriön julkaisemissa papereissa näytä irvokkaalta NH90 lentotuntien hinta eri vuosien välillä. Siinä kun on vieressä myös se paljon pienempi Hornetin...

Sitä on muistaakseni puolusteltu, että ei olisi varaakaan lentää enempää tunteja vuodessa. Mutta jossain vaiheessa ne on alikäytettyjä eikä lennä vähän vain sen takia, että säästeltäisiin tunteja kriisiin.

NH-lentotunnit
2021 toteutuma 1 759, 2022 arvio 1 850, 2023 ennuste 1 850
(Hornetilla 9008, 9000, 9000)
(2023 TAE)

Lentotunnin hintaa ei löydy enää samalla tavoin kuin 2017 TAE:sta aikoinaan.

2025 TAE:ssa on muuten varattu Maavoimien eteentyönnetty läsnäolo 15 miljoonaa, Liittolaismaiden joukkojen vastaanottokyvyn edistäminen 16 miljoonaa ja Maavoimien johtoportaan perustaminen (Nato Mikkeli?) 8,5.
 
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Viimeisintä artikkelia (Norjan) NH90:stä luopumisesta

Alkuperäinen TWZ.COM

Norway has become the latest customer of the pan-European NH90 helicopter to walk away from its acquisition, agreeing on an out-of-court settlement with manufacturer NH Industries (NHI). The NATO member follows Australia, whose departure from the program TWZ has discussed in depth in the past, and Belgium, which announced earlier this year that it would retire its Tactical Transport Helicopter (TTH) versions.

It was confirmed today that NHI would pay Norway €375 million ($432 million) to bring to an end the dispute around the Scandinavian nation’s long-contested NH90 contract, which involved 14 navalized versions of the helicopter. In a joint statement, Norway and NHI said that the 14 NH90s would be returned to the manufacturer together with spare parts, tools, and mission equipment. The aircraft and components will be recycled back into the program so they can be passed on to other customers.

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An NH90 on the deck of a Royal Norwegian Navy ship. NHI
“This solution reflects the parties’ mutual agreement to bring all related disputes to a conclusive end,” the joint statement said.

Norway announced plans to buy the 14 helicopters in 2001, with these to be divided between the Royal Norwegian Navy and Norwegian Coast Guard, with deliveries planned between 2005 and 2008. The Navy was to get six examples outfitted for anti-submarine warfare, while the Coast Guard would receive the remaining eight configured for search and rescue.

From the start, the program was dogged by problems, with the first example not being delivered until December 2011. The following year, the Norwegian Ministry of Defense announced that the slow pace of deliveries meant that another helicopter type might have to be purchased to fill the gap once the country’s Westland Lynx shipborne helicopters were retired in 2014. At that time, it began to be reported that Oslo was looking at the U.S.-made MH-60 Seahawk as an alternative to the NH90 for anti-submarine warfare.

lynx helikopter
A Norwegian Coast Guard Westland Lynx. Norwegian Armed Forces
By January 2016, six NH90s had been delivered, and two years later, a Norwegian Armed Forces report found that the NH90 fleet was not providing the required flight hours to meet its intended roles. The report recommended that all 14 helicopters be converted for the anti-submarine warfare role.

A subsequent Norwegian Armed Forces study, in September 2018, suggested that it might still be possible for the 14 NH90s to perform in both the Navy and Coast Guard roles. However, this would require the ready availability of spare parts, as well as sufficient overhaul capacity. The goal was to achieve this by 2022.

By 2022, however, the Norwegian Ministry of Defense was voicing more concerns over new delays and NHI’s alleged failure to meet contractual obligations. Once again, an alternative helicopter was on the agenda.

Finally, in June 2022, then-Norwegian Minister of Defense Bjørn Arild Gram announced that the NH90 contract would be terminated and that the helicopters would be immediately grounded. Oslo cited delays, errors, and excessive maintenance requirements and demanded compensation from NHI.

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A Norwegian NH90 helicopter in the hangar. Norwegian Ministry of Defense
By that point, 13 NH90s had been delivered, but only eight arrived in a fully operational configuration, according to the Norwegian Ministry of Defense. Where the fleet was required to fly 3,900 hours a year, it was averaging just 700 hours annually.

“Regrettably, we have reached the conclusion that no matter how many hours our technicians work, and how many parts we order, it will never make the NH90 capable of … meeting the requirements of the Norwegian Armed Forces,” Gram said at the time.

In 2023, Norway announced that the NH90s would be partially replaced by six MH-60R Seahawks. Deliveries began this year and are scheduled to be completed in 2027.


The Norwegian development is the latest blow for NHI in what has been a disappointing year.

In July, Belgium’s Minister of Defense Theo Francken said that the country will soon retire its four NH90 TTHs, describing the acquisition as a “bad purchase.” Belgium will continue to operate a similar number of maritime-tasked NH90s.

Australia’s sorry saga with the NH90 is something that TWZ has reported on extensively in the past.

Like Norway, Australia cited difficulties with maintenance and availability when, in December 2021, it announced it was ditching its fleet of MRH90 battlefield utility helicopters, a variant of the NH90 also known locally in that country as the Taipan, and replacing them with U.S.-built UH-60 Black Hawks. The NH90 had entered Australian service in 2008, and the fleet of 46 Taipans was retired a decade ahead of schedule.

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An Australian Army MRH90 provides support to the New South Wales government following a request for assistance in response to flooding across the state. Commonwealth of Australia, Department of Defense
“The performance of the MRH90 Taipan has been an ongoing and well-documented concern for [the Australian Ministry of Defense], and there has been a significant effort at great expense to try to remediate those issues,” then-Australian Minister for Defense Peter Dutton said at the time. “It is critically important that there is a safe, reliable, and capable utility helicopter available for our servicemen and women into the future, with reasonable and predictable operating costs.”

Norway’s neighbor, Sweden, has also been less than satisfied with its NH90s, of which it took nine each of the TTH and NFH, albeit modified to meet local requirements for specific search and rescue and anti-submarine warfare roles, respectively. Delays in getting the TTHs fully operational led to Sweden ordering 15 UH-60M Black Hawks as a stopgap, while in November 2022, the country revealed plans to replace its NH90 NFHs entirely.

Outside of these cases, other NH90 operators have faced a variety of problems with the helicopter, although these issues have rarely been consistent, especially since individual variants — more than 20 in all — can differ from country to country.

Examples include Germany, where the Army’s helicopters were revealed to have rear ramps too weak to support fully equipped soldiers, cabin floors that can be damaged by combat boots, among other faults. At one point in 2019, only around 12 percent of Germany’s NH90s were mission-capable, with the German Armed Forces blaming Airbus, which is part of the NHI consortium, for alleged failings in its maintenance services.

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A German Army NH90 is loaded aboard an An-124 strategic airlifter at Leipzig/Halle Airport for transport to Mali in 2017. Bundeswehr/Mario Bähr
On the other hand, NHI has continued to trumpet the NH90’s successes, where they have occurred.

Last year, the company’s CEO, Axel Aloccio, said that he considered there were “lots of commercial opportunities” available for additional NH90 sales. He said that, in particular, there was “a lot” of interest from Middle East nations and identified an overall market for between “50 to 100” sales of the aircraft.

Meanwhile, 13 other operators continue to fly the NH90 in a variety of roles, and the helicopter is expanding into new missions, too. As part of its defense spending drive, the Netherlands announced last year that it would add to its NH90 fleet.

For the time being, however, the NH90’s loss in Norway, and previously Australia, further tarnishes the helicopter’s reputation but is certainly good news for Lockheed Martin, whose H-60/S-70 series is a readymade and well-proven replacement.

Contact the author: [email protected]
 
, Norway and NHI said that the 14 NH90s would be returned to the manufacturer together with spare parts, tools, and mission equipment. The aircraft and components will be recycled back into the program so they can be passed on to other customers.
Nyt olisi sille Patrian huhutulle "superosaamiselle" NH-90 huollossa käyttöä ja mahdollista pistää alennettuun hintaan merivoimien kopterikyky kuntoon.

HEKOP ei varmasti myöskään olisi pahoillaan muutamasta lisäkopterista/varaosista, eikä Raja lentokaluston lisääntymisestä suomenlahdella. Rajallehan voisi jopa maistuakin järeämpi suristin toimimaan Turvalta (luokalta).
 
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