BarrelNut
Kenraali
Mikähän mahtaa olla Sirppimestarin äidinkieli?
Ukrainan konflikti/sota
Mikähän mahtaa olla Sirppimestarin äidinkieli?
sirppimestari
Kersantti
Epäilläänkö täällä minun suomalaisuuttani?
Kyllä, olen syntyperäinen suomalainen.sirppimestari
Kersantti
LOL. En ole äänestyskelpoinen Venäjän federaation vaaleissa. Aiotko itse äänestää Obamaa ?Aiotko äänestää?
skärdis
Greatest Leader
Epäilläänkö täällä minun suomalaisuuttani?
Paluumuuttajiahan ne kaikki Suomeen tulleet venäläiset ovat, ainakin presidentti Koiviston näkemyksen mukaan.
Ei taida sekään onnistua.
Viimeksi kun on äänestänyt, niin tuli äänestettyä muumimamma Tarja Halosta... Tämäkin vielä! Ulkomailta käsin ei ole oikein jaksanut politiikkaa seurata Suomessa. Muissa maissa eivät perhana anna äänestää...vaikka jenkeissä sellaistakin tapahtuu kuulemma yleisesti. Vote early, vote often! Recon4Life
Kapteeni
En nyt tiedä kritisoitko varsinaisesti mitään tai mitä tarkoitit, mutta inkeriläiset olivat mielestäni täysin tervetulleita tänne. Ovat kuitenkin suoraan savolaisten jälkeläisiä.
Jatkossa ei sitten käydä vuoroin vierahissa!
Russian Foreign Ministry publishes list of US citizens barred from entering RF
Russia
July 19, 16:46 UTC+4
Among them are people involved in tortures in the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo prisons
© ITAR-TASS/Staniskav Krasilnikov
MOSCOW, July 19 (Itar-Tass) - The Russian Foreign Ministry has published on its website a list of twelve U.S. citizens barred from entering Russia for violations of fundamental human rights and freedoms. Among them are people involved in tortures in the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo prisons.
The Foreign Ministry's spokesman Alexander Lukashevich noted the first Russian "Guantanamo list" of 18 names was made public last year. The number corresponded to the number of Russians in the "Magnitsky list". This time, it is also a symmetrical action twelve Americans are barred from entering Russia, he said.
The new list is divided into two groups persons involved in the legalization and the use of tortures against Guantanamo prisoners and American servicemen involved in abuses against prisoners in the Abu Ghraib special prison in Iraq or those who concealed crimes.
Russian Foreign Ministry publishes list of US citizens barred from entering RF
Russia
July 19, 16:46 UTC+4
Among them are people involved in tortures in the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo prisons
© ITAR-TASS/Staniskav Krasilnikov
MOSCOW, July 19 (Itar-Tass) - The Russian Foreign Ministry has published on its website a list of twelve U.S. citizens barred from entering Russia for violations of fundamental human rights and freedoms. Among them are people involved in tortures in the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo prisons.
The Foreign Ministry's spokesman Alexander Lukashevich noted the first Russian "Guantanamo list" of 18 names was made public last year. The number corresponded to the number of Russians in the "Magnitsky list". This time, it is also a symmetrical action twelve Americans are barred from entering Russia, he said.
The new list is divided into two groups persons involved in the legalization and the use of tortures against Guantanamo prisoners and American servicemen involved in abuses against prisoners in the Abu Ghraib special prison in Iraq or those who concealed crimes.
Viimeksi muokattu:
Aamen!
Luulis jo tässä vaiheessa vähän pienemmälläkin älykkyysosamäärällä tajuavan kuka täällä on liikkeellä naapurin agendalla ja kuka ei. Keskustelu näiden trollien kanssa on sitten samaa tasoa, jos yrittäisitte vääntää uskonasioista jehovien kanssa. Joten jättäkää ne rauhaan. Modet hoitaa.
Eiköhän hommat jatku vanhaan tapaan sen jälkeen, kun onnettomuustutkijat ovat hoitaneet työnsä. Onnettomuustutkijoiden turvallisuudesta huolehtiminen onkin alueellisesti ainoa toimenpide joka tuo edes jonkinlaisen muutoksen käsikirjoitukseen. Loppu on sanahelinää ja käsien heiluttelua. Näin se menee, kun suurvallat pelaa.
krd
Ylipäällikkö
Tämä on kyllä harvinaisen totta. Tavoitteet säilyvät ja yksittäiset tapahtumat unohtuvat mediassa nopeasti. EU-tavoitemuovaus tässä uusimmassa asiassa on pitkälti muodostumassa.
skärdis
Greatest Leader
Aidot inkeriläiset kyllä, mutta sieltä tuli paljon sellaistakin väkeä, joiden esivanhemmista osa oli ollut inkeriläisiä, mutta lapsenlapset olivat täysin venäläistyneitä. Ei siinä mitään, ovat tervetulleita Suomeen, kunhan haluavat suomalaisiksi. Mitään Lasnamäen kaltaisia venäläislähiöitä en tänne halua. Myöskin kaksoiskansalaisuus on hyvin epäilyttävä asia, koska Putin katsoo heidät suojeltaviksi alamaisikseen.
Ei minulla tavallisia venäläisiäkään vastaan mitään ole. Tehdään kauppaa ja käydään vierailuilla, se on normaalia kanssakäymistä ja kaikinpuolin kannatettavaa. Mutta jos tähän aletaan sotkemaan putinismejä, niin alkaa menemään liian pitkälle.
Separatistit näreissään ja krapulassa, homma ei Kanervan mukaan hoidu, jolleivat saa selvitä rauhassa!
Kanerva: Separatistit näreissään humalauutisoinnista
Ulkomaat | Turun Sanomat 14:49 | 0
Euroopan turvallisuus- ja yhteistyöjärjestö Etyjin Ukraina-neuvotteluryhmän puheenjohtaja Ilkka Kanerva (kok) on saanut varmistettua, että Etyj-tarkkailijat eivät ole päässeet malesialaiskoneen luokse sovitusti.
Separatistit ovat Kanervan mukaan vedonneet siihen, että länsimaalaisissa medioissa on sanottu heidän olleen humalassa. Separatistit eivät pidä tätä hyvän yhteistyöhengen mukaisena.
Kanerva kertoo selvittäneensä tilannetta aamun aikana, mutta hänkin on vain muutaman tietolähteen varassa. Tällä hetkellä näyttää kuitenkin siltä, että alueella on rajoitettu ulkopuolisten asiantuntijoiden toimintaa. Kanervan mukaan rajoitukset koskevat kaikki ulkopuolisia toimijoita, ei ainoastaan Etyj-tarkkailijoita.
Kanervan mukaan nyt olisi tärkeää, että koneen putoamista saataisiin selvittää rauhassa. Hänen mukaansa asiaa ei auta minkäänlaisten syytösten esittäminen.
Kanervan mukaan on mahdotonta arvioida, kuinka tilanne etenee.
TS–STT
Kanerva: Separatistit näreissään humalauutisoinnista
Ulkomaat | Turun Sanomat 14:49 | 0
Euroopan turvallisuus- ja yhteistyöjärjestö Etyjin Ukraina-neuvotteluryhmän puheenjohtaja Ilkka Kanerva (kok) on saanut varmistettua, että Etyj-tarkkailijat eivät ole päässeet malesialaiskoneen luokse sovitusti.
Separatistit ovat Kanervan mukaan vedonneet siihen, että länsimaalaisissa medioissa on sanottu heidän olleen humalassa. Separatistit eivät pidä tätä hyvän yhteistyöhengen mukaisena.
Kanerva kertoo selvittäneensä tilannetta aamun aikana, mutta hänkin on vain muutaman tietolähteen varassa. Tällä hetkellä näyttää kuitenkin siltä, että alueella on rajoitettu ulkopuolisten asiantuntijoiden toimintaa. Kanervan mukaan rajoitukset koskevat kaikki ulkopuolisia toimijoita, ei ainoastaan Etyj-tarkkailijoita.
Kanervan mukaan nyt olisi tärkeää, että koneen putoamista saataisiin selvittää rauhassa. Hänen mukaansa asiaa ei auta minkäänlaisten syytösten esittäminen.
Kanervan mukaan on mahdotonta arvioida, kuinka tilanne etenee.
TS–STT
krd
Ylipäällikkö
Tiedotus etenee Ukrainassa ketterästi:
Ukraina: "Vakuuttavia todisteita" Venäjän osallisuudesta turmakoneen ampumiseen
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716255344.html
Kun taas Suomessa näyttäisi olevan hieman hitaampaa:
Niinistö hämmästelee, miksi häntä ei informoitu ohjustakavarikosta
http://yle.fi/uutiset/niinisto_hammastelee_miksi_hanta_ei_informoitu_ohjustakavarikosta/7365290
Sitten taas reaktioeroja lammen eri rannoilta:
Putin ja Merkel: YK:n tutkijaryhmä Itä-Ukrainaan
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716262391.html
Panokset kovenevat: Venäjä julisti amerikkalaisia viisumikieltoon
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716251197.html
Ukraina: "Vakuuttavia todisteita" Venäjän osallisuudesta turmakoneen ampumiseen
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716255344.html
Kun taas Suomessa näyttäisi olevan hieman hitaampaa:
Niinistö hämmästelee, miksi häntä ei informoitu ohjustakavarikosta
http://yle.fi/uutiset/niinisto_hammastelee_miksi_hanta_ei_informoitu_ohjustakavarikosta/7365290
Sitten taas reaktioeroja lammen eri rannoilta:
Putin ja Merkel: YK:n tutkijaryhmä Itä-Ukrainaan
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716262391.html
Panokset kovenevat: Venäjä julisti amerikkalaisia viisumikieltoon
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716251197.html
Karvajalka
Luutnantti
Panokset kovenevat: Venäjä julisti amerikkalaisia viisumikieltoon
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716251197.html[/QUOTE]
Luulis amerikkalaisia harmittavan ;D
http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288716251197.html[/QUOTE]
Luulis amerikkalaisia harmittavan ;D
EVK
Alikersantti
http://yle.fi/uutiset/niinisto_hammastelee_miksi_hanta_ei_informoitu_ohjustakavarikosta/7365290
Jonkinmoista jatkumoa hornet-skandaalille kertoen karua kieltään siitä, miten surkealla tolalla valtiomme päämiesten tilannekuva on. Muuten ei juurikaan kiinnostaisi, mutta Sale on kuitenkin korkein sotilasjohtajamme ja ulkopolitiikan johtaja.
Jonkinmoista jatkumoa hornet-skandaalille kertoen karua kieltään siitä, miten surkealla tolalla valtiomme päämiesten tilannekuva on. Muuten ei juurikaan kiinnostaisi, mutta Sale on kuitenkin korkein sotilasjohtajamme ja ulkopolitiikan johtaja.
Putin on valinnut linjansa. Hän olisi voinut ottaa etäisyyttä kapinallisten ääritoimiin, mutta valitsi sen sijaan Ukrainan tuomitsemisen. Hän ei ole kertaakaan kyseenalaistanut kapinallisten menettelyjä. Jollei tilanne muutu lähipäivinä, Kremlin syrjäytyminen lännestä tulee jatkumaan ja juopa syvenemään.
http://time.com/3007152/ukraine-crash-putin-russia-isolationism/
World foreign affairs
Putin’s Defiance After Malaysia Airlines Crash Points to Further Isolationism
The President has stubbornly refused to even suggest that the rebel leaders share part of the blame in the disaster.
At some point on Thursday evening, just after Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 blew apart over some wheat field in eastern Ukraine, Vladimir Putin had a chance to take stock of his options. There were essentially two. The Russian President could stand behind the rebel fighters in eastern Ukraine, even as suspicion grew that they were responsible for shooting the airliner down, and risk implicating Russia in the tragedy and deepening the Kremlin’s conflict with Ukraine and with the West. The other option, a familiar one for Putin, would be to use the senseless loss of life as an opportunity to shift toward reconciliation.
He had taken the latter approach a few years ago, in 2010, when a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczyński and his entourage crashed in western Russia, killing everyone on board. To the surprise of many in Poland, Putin took that tragedy as a chance to make amends, however briefly, easing the history of mistrust between the two nations. His displays of mourning and commiseration – Putin even hugged and comforted Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk near the crash site – allowed Russians and Poles to call each other brothers for the first time in a generation.
Taking the same approach after Thursday’s catastrophe would have helped Putin on several fronts. He could have distanced himself from the increasingly erratic rebel leaders in Ukraine and their supporters in Russia, who have been goading Putin deeper into war, without looking weak or inconsistent at home. More important for his interests, he could have defused the West’s case for further sanctions against Russia, at least by working with Ukraine to investigate the tragedy and showing some remorse for his role in fueling the conflict that, ultimately, led to the downing of that plane. But Putin seems to have chosen otherwise.
Instead of the displays of empathy he showed after the crash of the Polish plane four years ago, Putin immediately began casting blame on Ukraine and shielding the rebels from criticism. Some observers have suggested that this was a kneejerk reaction rather than a well-considered choice. “The Kremlin will, for all its immediate and instinctive bluster and spin, have to definitively and overtly withdraw from arming and protecting the rebels,” wrote Mark Galleoti, a prominent Russia expert and professor at New York University. “I suspect that when the histories are written, this will be deemed the day the insurgency lost. Or at least began to lose.”
That may be true. But Russia’s behavior so far suggests that it will not stand by and watch the insurgency falter, regardless of how much evidence arises that its foot soldiers shot down that plane. Russian state television has already begun defending the rebels from blame, offering theories on the culpability of Ukraine’s armed forces. Once that message is chosen as the official line, the Kremlin will be wary of veering away from it. Many top officials have already locked themselves into a position, well before all the circumstances became clear. Sergei Naryshkin, the speaker of the Russian parliament and one of Putin’s oldest and closest allies, even accused Kiev of “criminal negligence” on Friday for allowing the Malaysia Airlines flight to pass over the region where “the Ukrainian army uses armored vehicles, heavy artillery, warplanes and launch rocket systems against their citizens.”
He made no mention of the fact that the rebels launch rockets as well, including the kind capable of taking down an airliner flying at more than 30,000 feet. Nor did Putin in his comments late on Thursday. “Obviously, the state over which this incident took place is responsible for this terrible tragedy,” Putin said.
The one-sidedness of the President’s response – his refusal even to suggest that the rebel leaders share part of the blame in the disaster – has given his critics a chance to lay the blame on him. Alexander Ryklin, a political commentator and vocal opponent of the Kremlin, wrote on Friday that “all of the political responsibility” lies on Putin’s shoulders. “He is the one who gave the orders to provide Russian technology and weapons to these mindless insurgents,” Ryklin wrote in an editorial on Friday. “And the result is clear.”
If the investigation into Thursday’s crash manages to prove that assertion in the coming weeks and months, the damage to Putin’s credibility at home and abroad would be enormous, and it is not clear what he has to gain from siding so clearly with the rebels this early in the investigation. Other than projecting a stubborn defiance in this conflict, and thus firming up his already sky-high support among hardliners in Russia, there is little obvious upside. So many Russia-watchers, particularly the investors who have a financial stake in Russia avoiding further sanctions, have held out hope that Putin will still shift to a more conciliatory line.
“Either the event will push Russia towards greater isolationism as a response to the broadly based global criticism,” said the Moscow-based investment adviser Chris Weafer, “or it will mark some sort of end, or the start of the end, of the most dangerous phase in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.”
Two days after the crash, that is still Putin’s choice to make. But from the signals the Kremlin is sending so far, it seems he has already made it. It would not only mean further isolation for Russia, it would also prolong or even deepen the most dangerous phase in its conflict with Ukraine.
http://time.com/3007152/ukraine-crash-putin-russia-isolationism/
World foreign affairs
Putin’s Defiance After Malaysia Airlines Crash Points to Further Isolationism
The President has stubbornly refused to even suggest that the rebel leaders share part of the blame in the disaster.
At some point on Thursday evening, just after Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 blew apart over some wheat field in eastern Ukraine, Vladimir Putin had a chance to take stock of his options. There were essentially two. The Russian President could stand behind the rebel fighters in eastern Ukraine, even as suspicion grew that they were responsible for shooting the airliner down, and risk implicating Russia in the tragedy and deepening the Kremlin’s conflict with Ukraine and with the West. The other option, a familiar one for Putin, would be to use the senseless loss of life as an opportunity to shift toward reconciliation.
He had taken the latter approach a few years ago, in 2010, when a plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczyński and his entourage crashed in western Russia, killing everyone on board. To the surprise of many in Poland, Putin took that tragedy as a chance to make amends, however briefly, easing the history of mistrust between the two nations. His displays of mourning and commiseration – Putin even hugged and comforted Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk near the crash site – allowed Russians and Poles to call each other brothers for the first time in a generation.
Taking the same approach after Thursday’s catastrophe would have helped Putin on several fronts. He could have distanced himself from the increasingly erratic rebel leaders in Ukraine and their supporters in Russia, who have been goading Putin deeper into war, without looking weak or inconsistent at home. More important for his interests, he could have defused the West’s case for further sanctions against Russia, at least by working with Ukraine to investigate the tragedy and showing some remorse for his role in fueling the conflict that, ultimately, led to the downing of that plane. But Putin seems to have chosen otherwise.
Instead of the displays of empathy he showed after the crash of the Polish plane four years ago, Putin immediately began casting blame on Ukraine and shielding the rebels from criticism. Some observers have suggested that this was a kneejerk reaction rather than a well-considered choice. “The Kremlin will, for all its immediate and instinctive bluster and spin, have to definitively and overtly withdraw from arming and protecting the rebels,” wrote Mark Galleoti, a prominent Russia expert and professor at New York University. “I suspect that when the histories are written, this will be deemed the day the insurgency lost. Or at least began to lose.”
That may be true. But Russia’s behavior so far suggests that it will not stand by and watch the insurgency falter, regardless of how much evidence arises that its foot soldiers shot down that plane. Russian state television has already begun defending the rebels from blame, offering theories on the culpability of Ukraine’s armed forces. Once that message is chosen as the official line, the Kremlin will be wary of veering away from it. Many top officials have already locked themselves into a position, well before all the circumstances became clear. Sergei Naryshkin, the speaker of the Russian parliament and one of Putin’s oldest and closest allies, even accused Kiev of “criminal negligence” on Friday for allowing the Malaysia Airlines flight to pass over the region where “the Ukrainian army uses armored vehicles, heavy artillery, warplanes and launch rocket systems against their citizens.”
He made no mention of the fact that the rebels launch rockets as well, including the kind capable of taking down an airliner flying at more than 30,000 feet. Nor did Putin in his comments late on Thursday. “Obviously, the state over which this incident took place is responsible for this terrible tragedy,” Putin said.
The one-sidedness of the President’s response – his refusal even to suggest that the rebel leaders share part of the blame in the disaster – has given his critics a chance to lay the blame on him. Alexander Ryklin, a political commentator and vocal opponent of the Kremlin, wrote on Friday that “all of the political responsibility” lies on Putin’s shoulders. “He is the one who gave the orders to provide Russian technology and weapons to these mindless insurgents,” Ryklin wrote in an editorial on Friday. “And the result is clear.”
If the investigation into Thursday’s crash manages to prove that assertion in the coming weeks and months, the damage to Putin’s credibility at home and abroad would be enormous, and it is not clear what he has to gain from siding so clearly with the rebels this early in the investigation. Other than projecting a stubborn defiance in this conflict, and thus firming up his already sky-high support among hardliners in Russia, there is little obvious upside. So many Russia-watchers, particularly the investors who have a financial stake in Russia avoiding further sanctions, have held out hope that Putin will still shift to a more conciliatory line.
“Either the event will push Russia towards greater isolationism as a response to the broadly based global criticism,” said the Moscow-based investment adviser Chris Weafer, “or it will mark some sort of end, or the start of the end, of the most dangerous phase in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.”
Two days after the crash, that is still Putin’s choice to make. But from the signals the Kremlin is sending so far, it seems he has already made it. It would not only mean further isolation for Russia, it would also prolong or even deepen the most dangerous phase in its conflict with Ukraine.
sherlokki
Kapteeni
Olisiko Euroopan unionin nopean toiminnan joukoille sopiva tehtävä turvata tutkintapaikka ja tutkijat? EU:n taisteluosastoja on suunniteltu käytettävän 6 000 km:n säteellä Brysselistä, mikä on huomioitu myös joukkoja varustettaessa. Nopealla toiminnalla tarkoitetaan kykyä siirtyä kriisialueelle nopeasti.
AKE-ukki
Respected Leader
Tätä vauhtia Venäjästä tulee uusi Pohjois-Korea. Tosin elkeet moiseen on ollut jo näkyvissä jo pitkään. Nyt ei kyllä meidän Suomalaisten (Stubb&Co.) kannata kovin paljoa hakea myötäätuntoa idänkaupan yms. suhteen EU:sta. Voi Suomettumis keskustelu saada uutta tuulta maailmalla. Mikäs nyt ,kun NATO:ttaja Stubb on ollut hiljaa julkisuudesta?
Itse näin unta viime yönä, että Navy Seal ukkoja hyppäsi putoamispaikalle turvaamaan tutkinnan.