Ukrainan konflikti/sota

Mielenkiinnolla odotan, mikä on Venäjän reaktio Ukrainan saavuttaessa lopulta rajan Sumyn alueella. 2014-2015 Ukrainan suurimmat tappiot tulivat epäsuorasta, joka ammuttiin rajan takaa ja johon ei voinut silloin vastata.

Strategisesti Venäjän täytyy sitoa Ukrainan joukkoja ja epäsuoran käyttö olisi edullinen keino. Tällä kertaa ei ole tosin mitään esteitä ampua takaisin.
 
Vaikken mitään ymmärtänyt, uskon ymmärtäneeni kaiken o_O

Näistä videoista jää sellainen tunne että nuo vanhat pierut ryssälandiassa, ovat nielleet putinin terroristijengin propagandan koukkuineen kitusiin. Eli ilmeisesti täytyy odottaa että kuolevat pois ennen kun mitään muutosta rajan takana tapahtuu. Turhia toivoja ei kannata elätellä vallankumouksista ym. Pessimisti ei pety ;)
 
Katso liite: 59228
-
Parhaalla kalustolla sotaan. Kyseessä on ZAZ-969: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAZ-969
Kalusto vanhenee ja sotilaat nuorenee. Onhan tätä kyllä jotenkin vaikea todeksi uskoa. Onko Venäjän armeijan alennustila oikeasti noin paha?

Suomessa jos olisi sama tilanne niin muutaman vuoden päästä inttiin menevä poikani ajelisi sitten samalla vehkeellä sotaan kuin isänsä aikoinaan tetsasi Sarriojärvellä ja muuallakin:
F5DF1A8D-E06B-43DB-8B38-F88E525A4714.jpeg
Eipä ole ikävä tuota rakkinetta ja sen kyydissä heilumista.
 
Kun nyt jäi kommentit laittamatta - niin jos joku ei tiedä, tuo liittyy Ukrainan väitettyyn sotavankien koipeen ampumiseen, ja videoa moni epäilee lavastetuksi. Kannattaa avata yo. linkki ja katsoa myös aloittajan muut postaukset tweettisäikeestä.

Ilmeisesti videon postasi ihan ensimmäisenä joku putinisti redditiin, eli tämä:

Tässä myös joku suomalainen postaa aiheesta Bellingcatin Higginsin tweetin perään:
Jokusen läpiammutun olen joskus nähnyt ja nämä ei ole sellaisia. Se, jonka jalka on virheasennossa ja kiristysside kiinni, ei pötkötä tuolla tavalla, piste. Tuo video on silkkaa sitä ihtiään.
 
Heti sodan alussa oli Ukrainalaisten juttu aiheesta, eli tuo päivitys tarkoittaa:
-Osa optiikasta/tähtäimistä vaihdetaan uuteen Ukrainalaisvalmistettuun. Sisältää mm. passiivi IP valovahvistimet
-Kameroita kuolleisiin kulmiin, tätä ei tarkemmin selitetty mutta "cameras and screens"
-Radiot vaihdetaan, tarttee tukea Ukrainan salauksia yms.

Nämä varmaan koskee pääosin 72:kosia. 80/90 menee varmaan radion vaihdolla, noihin ei kai ole UA:lla suoraan valmiita osia? Paikallisjoukot ottanee koneen ajoon suoraan, mitä nyt mahdolliset raadot siivotaan ulos ja pahimmat reijät hitsaillaan umpeen.

Nyt en enää tuota juttua löydä mistään. N-liiton optiikkavalmistus oli Ukrainassa, Venäläiset joutuu ostamaan nuo nykyään muualta, tosin eivät enää saa mistään.

T-80 on Ukrainalla käytössä ja siinä on sama automaattilaturi, kuin 64:ssä. Olen siinä ymmärryksessä, että juuri T-80 -tehdas jäi NL:n hajottua Harkovaan. Ukraina ja Venäjä ovat tehneet aiemmin vaunuista vaihtokauppaakin kaluston yhdenmukaistamiseksi.
 
Ei nuo race dronet ole kuin muutamia satasia kun niissä ei tarvi kovin paljoa hienoja ominaisuuksia ja kuitenkin menevät jossain vaiheessa muusiksi.
Nuo "kuskit" ovat vaan omalla alallaan lahjakkuuksia, hävittäjälentäjän kyvyt ja helvetisti paljon enemmän treeniä :D
Niitä kuskeja on peräkammarit täynnä, nämä ns. sohvasoturit ovat hyvin iso apu, jos ne vain osataan valjastaa oikeaan tehtävään.
 
Arvelen, että Putinin jatkosuunnitelma Ukrainan suhteen on sen jako jonkinlaisiin läänityksiin, jossa Venäjä sen liittolaiset miehittäisivät osaa alueista, ja Ukrainan läntiset naapurit osaa. Maan jälleenyhdistäminen ei sitten onnistuisi välttämättä koskaan, vaan Venäjän liittolaisten miehittämät alueet liitettäisiin jossain vaiheessa Venäjään. Ei ole mahdotonta, että jopa kiinalaisia ja ehkä myös intialaisia joukkoja tulisi Venäjän kutsusta miehittämään osaa alueista.

Tällaista jakoa - saati Kiinan joukkoja Eurooppaan tai ylipäätään yhtään enempää hääräämään Euroopan asioihin - ei tietenkään tulisi hyväksyä, joten Putin yrittäisi edistää valloitustaan ja siviilien tuhoamista niin, että Ukraina ja länsimaat olisivat pakotettuja hyväksymään jaon ja miehitykset - ja poistamaan pakotteet, mistä britit jo vihjasivat. Putinilla lienee diilit Kiinan kanssa valmisteilla, missä Kiina antaa erilaista tukea Venäjälle, ja vastineeksi Putin mm. tuo Kiinan sekaantumaan kaikkeen mahdolliseen Euroopassa, mihin vain pystyy ja länsimaat suostuvat.


An unusual and mostly forgotten pledge Chinese President Xi Jinping signed eight years ago that China would protect Ukraine in the event of a nuclear attack is getting fresh attention following Russia’s invasion of its Eastern European neighbor.

China’s 2013 promise to Ukraine of unspecified security guarantees echoed the kind of commitment nuclear-armed states—including China—have long made to nonnuclear ones, assurances that the U.S., U.K. and Russia had earlier also extended directly to Ukraine for relinquishing Soviet-era weapons. Yet Beijing appeared to be promising more than it had in past commitments, and why it singled out Ukraine for such an arrangement has confounded nuclear experts ever since.

Now, its existence appears to further muddy Beijing’s policy stance in the context of Russia’s recent invasion of Ukraine and Moscow’s warning last month it was raising the alert level of its nuclear forces.

“It’s a promise of a nuclear-weapon state to stand up for a nonnuclear-weapon state being threatened by a nuclear-weapon state,” says Gregory Kulacki, a Japan-based analyst who focuses on nuclear issues and China for the nonprofit Union of Concerned Scientists. “It means something and it should be pointed out to China,” he says.

When it was signed, China’s bilateral security promise to Ukraine appeared unprecedented, and immediately sparked questions over whether Mr. Xi, then new in his leadership role, intended to alter established military protocols. China is believed to have only one formal alliance, a 1961 pact with North Korea that doesn’t specify nuclear threats, in part because it predates even China’s first nuclear weapons test.

In its 2013 guarantees, Beijing praised Ukraine’s 1994 agreement to give up thousands of nuclear weapons from its time as a Soviet republic in exchange for security assurances from the U.S., U.K. and Russia. “China pledges unconditionally not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against nonnuclear Ukraine, and under the conditions of Ukraine suffering an invasion using nuclear weapons or suffering the threat of such kind of invasion, to provide Ukraine with corresponding security guarantees,” the statement said.

Initially, some government-run media in China, including the official Xinhua News Agency, stirred anxiety by dubbing Beijing’s agreement with Ukraine a “nuclear umbrella,” the term Washington uses to describe its vows to protect allies like South Korea. Several experts say umbrella is a vast exaggeration of the scope of Beijing’s pledge, and many of the original Chinese news reports have since disappeared from the internet.

“Umbrella is not accurate. If it were true, that would be a very consequential matter,” said Gerald C. Brown, a Washington defense analyst who specializes in China and nuclear weapons. He said nuclear umbrella is a uniquely American concept.

Beijing’s official language opposing nuclear umbrellas hasn’t changed in decades and is published on the website of its Ministry of Foreign Affairs: China “has neither deployed nuclear weapons in territories of other countries nor provided nuclear umbrella for any countries.”

As missiles rain down on Ukraine, one challenge in interpreting China’s intent: Beijing appears not to have published an official English-language translation of the agreement. Some words in the agreement—including bao zheng, which has been widely translated as “guarantee”—can have subtly different meanings.

When the U.S. offered its nuclear security pledges to Ukraine several years before China did, according to one of the U.S. negotiators, Steven Pifer, it deliberately used the more vague word “assurance” instead of the more ironclad “guarantee.”

Still, since Russia has long represented Ukraine’s primary security threat, China’s agreement seemed to suggest Beijing stood ready to oppose Moscow in such a conflict. While China describes a strategic partnership with Russia today, the two countries have often been on opposite sides of territorial issues and jostled for influence in third countries.

A reading of the Ukraine agreement now may also make it appear more adversarial to Moscow than it initially did. Ukraine’s signatory, then-President Viktor Yanukovych, enjoyed Kremlin backing and had weeks earlier balked at a partnership with the European Union—factors that propelled massive pro-Western demonstrations that forced him from power within two months of his Beijing visit.

Mr. Yanukovych’s visit to Beijing came just three months after Mr. Xi had announced plans for his Belt and Road initiative that would rebuild ancient Silk Road trade routes that linked China with Europe, some passing through Ukraine. The Ukraine leader’s state visit to Beijing also coincided with the arrival there of then-Vice President Joe Biden. It was the European leader rather than the American visitor who got top billing on China Central Television’s primary news broadcast.

But Beijing signaled its deal was with Ukraine, not Mr. Yanukovych, when China’s legislature ratified the pledge in 2015.

Intaek Han, president of the South Korean think tank Jeju Peace Institute, which promotes nonproliferation of weapons, says China’s assurances for Ukraine appear on paper to exceed those it is known to have provided to North Korea. He wonders whether Russia might have supported the pact to discourage Kyiv from aligning with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Miles Yu, a senior fellow at Washington think tank Hudson Institute and adviser to former U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, has for years sought to draw attention to the 2013 agreement. He says it demonstrated tension between Beijing and Moscow, reflected Ukraine’s desire for a third alternative to Russia and the EU, and also served to solidify Chinese access to weapons systems like aircraft engines produced in Ukraine.

“China has a long strategic interest in putting Ukraine in its geopolitical orbit,” Mr. Yu says.

Asked about the 2013 Ukraine pact at a regularly scheduled news conference on March 3, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry, Wang Wenbin, sidestepped the question by referring to a United Nations resolution on the security of nonnuclear states like Ukraine. “The security assurances have clear limitations on the content and are triggered under specific conditions,” Mr. Wang said.

“On the Ukraine issue, the pressing task now is for all sides to remain calm and exercise restraint, de-escalate the situation and promote [a] political settlement,” he said.
—Anniek Bao contributed to this article.
Write to James T. Areddy at [email protected]

 
Kalusto vanhenee ja sotilaat nuorenee. Onhan tätä kyllä jotenkin vaikea todeksi uskoa. Onko Venäjän armeijan alennustila oikeasti noin paha?

Suomessa jos olisi sama tilanne niin muutaman vuoden päästä inttiin menevä poikani ajelisi sitten samalla vehkeellä sotaan kuin isänsä aikoinaan tetsasi Sarriojärvellä ja muuallakin:
Katso liite: 59229
Eipä ole ikävä tuota rakkinetta ja sen kyydissä heilumista.
Etkä ostanut??? Ei ollut varmaan edes kallis... Ja ne yhteiset hetket... kai nilläkin on arvo
 
Vaikken mitään ymmärtänyt, uskon ymmärtäneeni kaiken o_O

**Translation incoming:**

* POW: You need to answer some questions
* Ukrainian: One question
* Mom: Ok I am waiting
* Ukrainian and POW repeats: Why did Russians come to Ukraine to kill Ukrainian people?
* Mom: Why did NATO stuff Ukraine with weapons? Instructors? To attack Russia. The deal was, either Ukraine attacks Russia or Russia attacks Ukraine. And not Ukraine, but NATO.
* <Soldier tries to appeal to her "Mom">
* Ukrainian: Can I ask another question? <takes phone>
* Ukrainian: Hello, my name is Vladimir, I am a journalist. Tell me please, in other countries, for example Baltic states, they have the same thing. Poland has the same thing. Why do you think that specifically Ukraine was going to attack Russia? Why?
* Mom: Because we unveiled all of your plans. In addition to that, Ukraine was the one that started COVID. They said it was China, but how many bio-labs do you have there? <this is where journalist reacts with a shocked face>
* Soldier: Mom, why are you saying nonsense?
* Ukrainian: its ok
* Ukrainian: These labs existed since USSR, and that was shown and proven <mom interrupts>
* Mom: Ill tell you what I know. Ukraine does not belong to itself, and from long time ago. America has entirety of Ukraine's land. We did not attack Ukraine.
* Ukrainian: What do you mean land is American? can you clarify?
* Mom: Of Course, son of Biden was giving orders over there like it belonged to him. Is that so or not?
* Ukrainian: Son of Biden was on board of directors for one of the companies. We have a democratic country and we have companies, so son of Biden was in one of these companies.
* Mom: You are an appendage of NATO (meaning puppet). If we waited 2,3 days you would have joined NATO. This has been proven.
* Ukrainian: Ok, I ask you one more time, Poland is in NATO. Why do you think that if Ukraine would have joined NATO, although noone wanted to take us there. Why would Ukraine would have attacked Russia? Why specifically Ukraine?
* Mom: Because, thats how it was all planned. 8 years of weapons buildup.
* Ukrainian: We were buying weapons because we need it just like any other army in the world
* Mom: Even right now they are sending you billions of dollars. Who'se money did you buy it for?
* Ukrainian: Yes right now that this is all started they are sending.
* Ukrainian: So you are for this then. Because we were supposed to attack you, you came here to kill us? Correct?
* Mom: Im not for all that
* Ukrainian: For what then?
* Mom: I know that its a disaster over there, and over here. In Russia and in Ukraine. And that we, simple Russian citizens are paying with lives of our children, so that someone <Ukrainian interrupts>
* Ukrainian: Because you "thought" Ukraine was going to attack you. Or because someone told you, that Ukraine was going to attack you. Yes?
* Mom: Why?
* Ukrainian: Because its a pure theory, everything you are told is a theory with zero facts behind it.
* Mom: <inaudiable> on the border so that they could attack Russia
* Ukrainian: Ok, this is something else... <gives phone back to POW>
* POW: Mom, you dont understand. I saw it all from the inside.
* Mom: They showed you what they wanted to show you. And I know what I know
* POW: Mom its because you are watching TV. Talk to father, he will say how things are.
* Mom: Father is a paid person in my country (as in he got bought off to be pro Ukraine)
* POW: That cant be true
* Mom: Son, they turned you. Sorry.
* POW: What do you mean they turned me? You are talking like a zombie. Seriously! How many years have I told you that <inaudiable>. And they jailed Navalniy. What are you saying?
* Mom: Poor Navalniy (sarcastically)
* <Ukrainian goes, this is useless, lets end the call>
* POW: Ok Mom I love you, Im going to call my wife
* Mom: Ok call her, everything will be ok
* POW: that is not clear (if things will be ok)
* <camera cuts and background voice says "Wow, that is something else">
* <video ends>
 
T-80 on Ukrainalla käytössä ja siinä on sama automaattilaturi, kuin 64:ssä. Olen siinä ymmärryksessä, että juuri T-80 -tehdas jäi NL:n hajottua Harkovaan. Ukraina ja Venäjä ovat tehneet aiemmin vaunuista vaihtokauppaakin kaluston yhdenmukaistamiseksi.
Eikö Ukraina ja Venäjä vaihtaneet lähinnä T-64 ja T-72 suhteessa 1:1. 64 Ukrainalle ja 72:et Venäjälle. En kyllä ymmärrä miksi Ukraina suostui tuohon eikö 72 ole paljon järkevämpi kuin 64?
 
Back
Top