Venäjän merivoimat-yleisketju

[Tups]

Jos otetaan lähtökohdaksi vaikkapa se, että X-Bow on suunniteltu avoveteen ja kovaan merenkäyntiin, mutta Venäläisen napa-aseman keula ensisijaisesti jäihin.

 

[atu-c2]

14 ihmistä kuoli Venäjän asevoimien ydinkäyttöisen tutkimussukellusveneen tulipalossa, presidentti Putin komensi puolustusministerin onnettomuuspaikalle

Alus tuotiin Severomorskin sotasatamaan. Putin esitti osanottonsa onnettomuuden uhrien omaisille.

www.hs.fi

 

[ctg]

The Kremlin has said it will not reveal the vessel type or mission of the 14 sailors who died onboard a top-secret submersible on Monday because the information is a closely guarded state secret.

The remarks came as information has trickled out about the vessel, reported to be an advanced “spy submersible”, and its highly decorated crew, which served in a secretive unit under Russia’s main directorate of deep-sea research and represented some of the navy’s best and brightest.

The victims, who reportedly included the son of the military unit’s commander, also included seven high-ranking officers and two recipients of the Hero of the Russian Federation, the country’s highest honour.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said during a telephone call with journalists that information about the vessel would not be released because it “is classified information, this state secret is being kept to protect the country’s national security”.

Following reports in online media, the Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda on Wednesday published the names and photographs of several of the victims with confirmation of their deaths from relatives. They included the son-in-law of a rear admiral and the vessel’s commander, reportedly awarded the title Hero of the Russian Federation for his research in the Arctic and Antarctic.

Purported photographs of the 14 victims have also been uploaded to a social media account that follows developments in Russia’s navy.

Russia’s defence ministry said that a fire broke out on board the submersible on Monday and that the victims sacrificed their lives in order to save the vessel. Russian officials have not said why the incident occurred or how many people in total were on board, probably because the size of the crew is a secret.

Russia’s defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, said that one civilian was evacuated from the submersible.

“They were unique military specialists, highly qualified professionals, performing important research on the Earth’s hydrosphere,” Shoigu said of the victims in televised comments.

Several independent Russian media outlets, including RBC and Novaya Gazeta, have identified the vessel as the Losharik. The Losharik is believed to be nuclear-powered, capable of diving to extreme depths and possibly involved in the tapping and severing of underwater communications cables, as well as deep-sea research and rescue missions.

The Losharik is thought to be comprised of a series of orbs inside a traditional submarine hull, allowing the vessel to dive to great depths. It can be carried underneath a converted ballistic missile submarine that serves as a “mothership”, and then released to perform deep-sea missions.

Little information about the submersible has been confirmed. The clearest photograph is believed to have been accidentally published by Top Gear magazine, which inadvertently captured it while covering a test drive of a Mercedes-Benz GL450 in Arkhangelsk, northern Russia.

The accident was the deadliest seen by Russia’s navy since the 2008 incident aboard the Russian submarine K-152 Nerpa, when the accidental release of a fire suppressant killed 20 people.

In 2000, Vladimir Putin was harshly criticised for his handling of the accidental sinking of the Kursk nuclear submarine, which left 118 sailors dead and families desperate for information about their loved ones.

The Kremlin has had to balance its wish to keep information about the submersible secret and its desire to show the public that it is being transparent.

Putin has dispatched Shoigu to head an inquiry into the accident in the Russian city of Severomorsk in the country’s far north, and the Kremlin spokesman said Putin had “full information” about the incident.

Asked whether the vessel had a nuclear reactor on board, he said: “This isn’t my area; we don’t deal with submarine building. You should ask the defence ministry.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-14-sailors-died-is-state-secret-says-kremlin

 

[ctg]

Local fishermen reported seeing Podmoskovye surface in the Barents Sea near the town of Kildin around the time of the reported fire. The rapid surfacing was quickly followed by a lot of commotion on the large mothership submarine's deck.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...ire-emerge-along-with-an-intriguing-schematic

On July 3, 2019, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu had visited Severomorsk, which is in the Kola Bay, where the still-unnamed damaged submarine is reportedly now pier-side. The day before, Russian President Vladimir Putin had met with Shoigu and ordered him to personally go to the base, which is home to the headquarters of the Russian Navy's Northern Fleet, to meet with officials and get briefed about the accident. A separate, unconfirmed report said that the Russian Navy had actually towed the damaged submarine to Gadzhiyevo, which is situated to the north of Severomorsk.

"It [the submarine] belongs to the highest level of classified data, so it is absolutely normal for it [the name] not to be disclosed," Putin's personal spokesperson Dmitri Peskov said on July 3, 2019, all but confirming that the submarine in question is one of Russia's shadowy special mission boats. The Russian President himself had previously described the sub as an "unusual vessel."

Speaking at an open meeting with officials in Severomorsk, Shoigu also described the submariners who died in the fire as "high professionals" and "unique experts." The highly specialized Main Directorate of Deep-Sea Research, a naval intelligence entity also known by the Russian acronym GUGI, operates the Russian Navy's fleet of special mission submarines, including Losharik and Belgorod

In addition, the Russian Defense Minister disclosed that a civilian expert from the country's state-run defense industrial complex had been on the submarine at the time of the accident. This might point to Losharik being involved in a test of new equipment during the mishap.

"The submariners acted heroically in the critical situation," Shoigu said. "They evacuated a civilian expert from the compartment that was engulfed by fire and shut the door to prevent the fire from spreading further and fought for the ship's survival until the end."

 

[ctg]

Vladimir Putin has confirmed for the first time that the top-secret submersible that suffered a deadly fire this week was nuclear-powered, but Russia’s defence minister said the nuclear unit had been sealed off and was in “working order”.

The disclosure came during a meeting between the Russian president and defence minister Sergei Shoigu about the incident, which left 14 Russian sailors dead, including seven high-ranking officers and two bearing the title Hero of Russia.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ire-hit-russian-submarine-was-nuclear-powered

 

[ctg]

On July 1, 14 Russian sailors—most of them senior officers with ranks equivalent to captain, commander, or lieutenant commander in the US Navy—died in an accident aboard a small nuclear-powered submarine designed for operations near or on the sea floor. The submarine Losharik (named after a Russian children's book character who is a horse made of juggling balls) was operating in the Barents Sea when the accident took place.

According to a Russian Navy statement published by TASS, the 14 "died in Russian territorial waters as a result of inhaling combustion products aboard a research submersible vehicle designated for studying the seafloor and the bottom of the World Ocean in the interests of the Russian Navy after a fire broke out during bathymetric measurements." The officers died while combating the fire.

In a statement delivered on July 3 from the Russian North Fleet's base in Severomorsk, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that three crew members and a civilian aboard the sub survived the disaster. The crew members who died, he said, "acted heroically in the critical situation. They evacuated a civilian expert from the compartment that was engulfed by fire and shut the door to prevent the fire from spreading further and fought for the ship's survival until the end."

The Kremlin has released a transcript of a meeting between Shoigu and Russian President Vladimir Putin. In it, Shoigu said that "we can repair the submersible quickly," thanks to actions by the crew to seal off the nuclear propulsion systems of the sub from the fire. "The crew has taken the necessary measures to save the unit, which is in working order." In other words, the actions of the officers who died fighting a fire from within a sealed compartment prevented an undersea nuclear disaster in the Arctic.

The accident is a public reminder of Russia's very secretive operations in the Arctic, which Putin's government has aggressively moved to protect militarily and exploit economically as the Arctic ice has retreated. Losharik has played a role in Russia's efforts to counter US submarines' covert incursions into their northern back yards. The vessel has put down sensors to detect subs—among other things.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...0-fathoms-the-fire-aboard-russias-secret-sub/

 

[krd]

Venäjäakku syynä. https://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000006182294.html?ref=rss

 

[Huhta]

Venäjäakku syynä. https://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000006182294.html?ref=rss

MV??!! Olisi mennyt takuuseen, mutta ei, päättivät mieluummin ostaa uuden tilalle kuin huollattaa ilmaiseksi Ukrainassa.

Sukellusveneessä on lehden mukaan käytetty aiemmin ukrainalaisia sinkkihopea-akkuja. Venäjän ja Ukrainan välien tulehtumisen jälkeen 2014 akkujen takuuhuoltoa ei haluttu antaa ukrainalaiselle yhtiölle, ja tilalle vaihdettiin pietarilaisen yhtiön valmistama litiumakku.

No, kunniakysymyksiä...

 

[Rannari]

MV??!! Olisi mennyt takuuseen, mutta ei, päättivät mieluummin ostaa uuden tilalle kuin huollattaa ilmaiseksi Ukrainassa.



No, kunniakysymyksiä...

Kunniakysymykset poikivat usein kunniavainajia.

 

[PSS]

MV??!! Olisi mennyt takuuseen, mutta ei, päättivät mieluummin ostaa uuden tilalle kuin huollattaa ilmaiseksi Ukrainassa.



No, kunniakysymyksiä...

Karma iski.

 

[fulcrum]

Tuskin ukrainalainen firma olisi edes ottanut koko akkua vastaan? Eiväthän he toimittaneet enää turbiinejakaan.
Litium-akun vaihto on luultavasti ollut joku 'pikaratkaisu', sukellusvenettä on tarvittu operaatioissa ja sopivaa akkua ei ollut heti saatavilla, laitetaan nyt joku edes.
Venäläisissä sukellusveneakuissa on ollut aiemminkin ongelmia, lämpimissä maissa eivät ole tahtoneet toimia ja on usein vaihdettu muunmaalaisiin, näin esim. Intiassa.

Meanwhile, Krylov jatkaa tukialusprojektien esittelyä, tällä kertaa vuorossa 44000 tonnin 'projekti 11430E':

Kuten projektinumerosta ja ulkonäöstäkin huomaa, kyseessä on Kiev-luokan jatkokehitelmä. Eli käytännössä Vikramaditya tuommoisella CVF-tyyppisellä isonnetulla lentokannella. Taustalla näkyy aikaisemmin julkistetun maihinnousualuksen malli. Infoboksi niille jotka osaa venättää:

En osaa sanoa onko tuossa kaasuturbiinit vai suunniteltu pysyttävän höyryssä? Näkyvän savupiipun puuttuminen tuntuisi viittaavaan edellämainittuun.

 

[Teräsmies]

Intialla on rakenteilla kaksi kappaletta Made in India tukialuksia eivätkä venäläiset ole ostamassa tukialuksia näillä näkymin. Arabeille ja turkkilaisille meinaavat kaupata?

 

[Mazikaze]

Intialla on rakenteilla kaksi kappaletta Made in India tukialuksia eivätkä venäläiset ole ostamassa tukialuksia näillä näkymin. Arabeille ja turkkilaisille meinaavat kaupata?

Näitä pienoismallejahan Venäjällä on 2000-luvulla riittänyt.

Uuden sukupolven Lider-ohjushävittäjä (15 000 tonnia):

(

Shrorm-luokan supertukialus (90 000-100 000 tonnia):

Puheiden perusteella Venäjällä pitäisi olla 2020-luvulle tultaessa maailman toiseksi vahvin "blue water navy". Toistaiseksi kuitenkaan mitään näistä ei ole alettu rakentamaan ja laivaston uudet alukset ovatkin rajoittuneet SLBM-veneisiin ja kevyisiin rannikon lähettyvillä toimiviin korvetteihin ja vastaaviin. Eiköhän tämäkin uusi lentotukialussuunnitelma mene samaan sarjaan yliäänikuljetuskoneiden ja muiden superaseiden kanssa. Katsotaan uudestaan 2030-luvulla...

Edit. Omana mielipiteenä sanoisin, että jos 2020 mennessä Venäjä ei saa tukialusprojektejaan käyntiin, ei heillä tule olemaan yhtään mitään tarjottavaa Kiinan tukialusohjelmaan. Intian kohdalla sama vuosiluku lienee 2025-30 välillä.

 

[fulcrum]

Nämä pienoismallit ovat suunnittelutoimiston omia projekteja joita tuhertelevat joutoaikoinaan että pysyy paikat vetreinä. Venäjältä tarjottiin Intian IAC-projektiin myös tukialusmallia, voi olla että tuo '11430E' on juuri se.
Laivasto ei ole julkistanut speksejä tulevalle tukialukselle, jos julkistaa sitten ikinä.

 

[Gyllis1]

Nämä pienoismallit ovat suunnittelutoimiston omia projekteja joita tuhertelevat joutoaikoinaan että pysyy paikat vetreinä. Venäjältä tarjottiin Intian IAC-projektiin myös tukialusmallia, voi olla että tuo '11430E' on juuri se.
Laivasto ei ole julkistanut speksejä tulevalle tukialukselle, jos julkistaa sitten ikinä.

Juuri näin.

Tuo Lider on kyllä jäätävän hieno.

 

[PSS]

Mutta onhan venäläiset viime aikoina tehneet suuria ja nopeita muunnosprojekteja. Amiraali Kusnezov ja kuivatelakka muutettiin sukelluskalustoksi...

 

[Passi]

Nämä pienoismallit ovat suunnittelutoimiston omia projekteja joita tuhertelevat joutoaikoinaan että pysyy paikat vetreinä. Venäjältä tarjottiin Intian IAC-projektiin myös tukialusmallia, voi olla että tuo '11430E' on juuri se.
Laivasto ei ole julkistanut speksejä tulevalle tukialukselle, jos julkistaa sitten ikinä.

Tuo lider on vissiin ainakin ajatuksen tasolla tulos.
Eikös venäläiset nyt viimein hylännyt kahden kirovin modernisointi eli modernisointi jää vain yhteen.


Tässä uudessa (10.7-2019 )uutisessa sanotaan että voisi alkaa 2023
https://ria.ru/20190710/1556370370.html

MOSCOW, July 10 - RIA News. The construction of the newest destroyer "Leader" can begin in 2023, the technical project is currently being developed by the Northern Design Bureau (PKB), Pavel Filippov, head of the Krylov State Research Center, told in an interview with RIA Novosti.
The Krylov Center developed the concept and advance design of this ship and then transferred the work to the Northern PKB for the development of a technical project.
"Yes, they (Northern PKB - Ed) started somewhere in 2016-2017. The work is going on. It was just originally planned to build a ship with a gas turbine installation, and there was a displacement of 12-13 thousand tons, then they said that nuclear power was needed, and its displacement immediately increased to 18 thousand tons. What is the final result, we still do not understand, we need to ask the Northern PKB. And as far as I understand, in 2023 this “ship” we should start building, ”said Filippov.

 

[Lunni]

Tuo Lider on kyllä jäätävän hieno.

Kyllä! Veit jalat suustani.

 

[Teräsmies]

Juuri näin.

Tuo Lider on kyllä jäätävän hieno.

Onhan se hienon näköinen japanilaistyylisellä "pagodi mastolla" varutettu paatti, mutta muutaman isomman ristelijän rakentaminen useamman pienemmän sijaan taitaa olla taktisesti 1900-1939 luvun ajattelua jolloin harvalukuiset isommat taistelulaivat nähtiin merien kuninkaina.

 

[fulcrum]

'Lider'-tyyppisen aluksen taustalla on samantapainen skaala-ajattelu joka johti aina vain isompiin taistelulaivoihin. Mitä isompi tutka saadaan korkeammalle, sitä suhteessa tehokkaampi sitä kuljettava sota-alus on. Ja luonnollisesti siihen tarvitaan iso alus.
'Lider' ehkä pohjautuu 90-luvulla kehitettyyn suunnitelmaan jossa pintalaivaston rungoksi olisi tehty "laivueenjohtoaluksia" ja "laivuetaistelualuksia". Viimeksimainitut olisivat olleet sellaisia Udaloyn kokoisia paatteja. Rahapulassa tämä ei koskaan edennyt ajatusta pitemmälle. Japanissahan pintalaivasto on rakennettu juuri näin, eli Burke-kehitelmät (Kongot ja Atagot) toimivat pienempien aluksien johtoaluksina. Kiinassa Tyyppi 055 lienee tehty samaan rooliin.