F-35 työntelee kuivalla muutenkin kilpailijoitaan.
F-35 Lightning II
- Viestiketjun aloittaja Hejsan
- Aloitus PVM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pentagon-is-expected-to-split-lockheeds-next-f-35-order-1477409662
"The U.S. Defense Department said it may split a $14 billion order for the next two batches of F-35 combat jets after failing to reach agreement on a single deal"
"...negotiations over price and other issues have dragged on longer than expected as the Pentagon tries to cut the cost of the F-35A model used by the U.S. Air Force to around $80 million by the end of the decade."
"Analysts are closely watching pricing on the next two batches of jets as the F-35 currently generates lower margins than Lockheed’s other planes."
"The U.S. Defense Department said it may split a $14 billion order for the next two batches of F-35 combat jets after failing to reach agreement on a single deal"
"...negotiations over price and other issues have dragged on longer than expected as the Pentagon tries to cut the cost of the F-35A model used by the U.S. Air Force to around $80 million by the end of the decade."
"Analysts are closely watching pricing on the next two batches of jets as the F-35 currently generates lower margins than Lockheed’s other planes."
Toiselta foorumilta pohdintaa F-35:n kyvystä korvata Growler: "The range where jamming is done makes a huge difference. If F-35 can sit at say 50 km away and legacy stand-off jammer has to sit 200 km away, F-35 requires 16 times less power to achieve the same jamming effectiveness to protect the other aircraft if all else remains unaffected."
Tämä puhuu saman puolesta. Eli F-15 varustettuna DFRM-häirintäpodilla ei ollut mitään jakoa F-22 vastaan. DFRM = digital radio frequency memory.
Tämä puhuu saman puolesta. Eli F-15 varustettuna DFRM-häirintäpodilla ei ollut mitään jakoa F-22 vastaan. DFRM = digital radio frequency memory.
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id:"committees/commjnt/fb49a6a2-5080-4c72-a379-e4fd10cc710a/0002"
Viimeksi muokattu:
Ei mitään uutta, mutta yhden entisen F-16 kuskin pohdintaa F-35:destä.
Former F-16 pilot Nate “Buster” Jaros asks if the stealth and advanced technologies of the F-35 overshadow the need for nimble fighters.
https://fightersweep.com/6305/can-the-f-35-dogfight/
Former F-16 pilot Nate “Buster” Jaros asks if the stealth and advanced technologies of the F-35 overshadow the need for nimble fighters.
https://fightersweep.com/6305/can-the-f-35-dogfight/
Oli aika varovainen, sikäli viisasta. Mutta viittasi taas siihen "dogfight-testiin", missä ei nimenomaan testattu suorituskykyä vaan sitä, miten alustavasti asetettuja softarajoituksia tulisi säätää.
Ei myöskään käsitellyt takasektorin näkyvyyspuutteesta puhuessaan jopa koneen läpi näkevää 360 näkymää, joka avautuu F-35 ohjaajalle.
Ei myöskään käsitellyt takasektorin näkyvyyspuutteesta puhuessaan jopa koneen läpi näkevää 360 näkymää, joka avautuu F-35 ohjaajalle.
Gyllis1
Respected Leader
Tuo loppukaneetti oli kuitenkin aika paljonpuhuva:
"Once the bugs are worked out, I think the F-35 will be the most capable fighter in the inventory."
Kyllä, mutta samalla koko teksti taisi olla hyvin lentäjän näkökulmasta kirjoitettu, eikä juurikaan ottanut kantaa esim. Kustannus tehokkuuteen, tai no se mainos väittämä onkin varattu muille koneille.
Ylli
Majuri
Tuo 360 astetta vaatii uudenlaisia pilotteja. Vastaisuudessa koulutukseen valittavilla piloteilla pitää olla 360 astetta ympäripyörivä pää.
Sarek1
Ylipäällikkö
Yksi niskanikama lisää tai muita muutoksia kaulan alueen elimistön rakenteeseen? Geeniteknologia apuun, kehitetään uudenlaisia lentäjiä. Minulla oli lapsena hoidokkina helmipöllö, jonka nuppi pyörähti noin 270 astetta akselin ympäri molempiin suuntiin. Ei pöllömpää.
http://www.hs.fi/tiede/a1305645287782
No niin, nyt saatiin kiitotievaatimuksiin lisäselvyyttä kun USMC kertoo distributed short takeoff–vertical-landing operations (DSO) -konseptistaan. Nämäkään ei tietysti ole minimejä (F-35B rolling takeoff minimi = USMC tukialuksen mitta), vaan ko. käyttöön sopivia.
DISTRIBUTED STOVL OPERATIONS AND AIR-MOBILITY SUPPORT:
Addressing the Mismatch between Requirements and Capabilities.
https://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment...d-STOVL-Operations-and-Air-Mobility-Supp.aspx
F-35A ja C se on 2,1km. Bertalle 1,2km.
DISTRIBUTED STOVL OPERATIONS AND AIR-MOBILITY SUPPORT:
Addressing the Mismatch between Requirements and Capabilities.
https://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment...d-STOVL-Operations-and-Air-Mobility-Supp.aspx
F-35A ja C se on 2,1km. Bertalle 1,2km.
Viimeksi muokattu:
Einomies1
Respected Leader
Jep, toivotaan että bugit olisi selätetty viimeistään 2018 jotta meillä olisi jonkin verran aikaa nähdä kone täysimittaisessa palveluskäytössä ennen ratkaisujen tekemistä 2021.
Jos näin ei ole niin sitten minusta täytyy arvioida F-35 projektia todella kriittisesti meidän kannalta koska silloin on mennyt yksinkertaisesti liian kauan koneen järjestelmien ja vikojen korjaamiseen eikä kone tule kestämään nykyisen kaltaista (F-18) palveluskäyttöä 30-40 vuotta.
Gyllis1
Respected Leader
Koko artikkeli on maksuseinän takana mutta tässä vähän juttua F-35:n RAMista:
Köh köh ei muutan taida olla L-taajuuskaan F-35:n tappaja.
http://aviationweek.com/aircraft-design/magic-behind-radar-absorbing-materials-stealthy-aircraft
But during development, something happened. First, program officials began hinting the F-35 might be stealthier than the F-22; hard to believe, given its less-disciplined shape. Then officials started referring to a material secret, a “conductive layer . . . where the magic happens.” In May of 2010, Tom Burbage, then executive vice president for the F-35 program, disclosed the incorporation of “fiber mat” technology, describing it as the “biggest technical breakthrough we’ve had on this program.”
The fiber mat would replace many RAM appliques by being cured into the composite skin, making it durable. Burbage further specified the mat featured a “non-directional weave”— which would ensure EM properties do not vary with angle. Baked into the skin, this layer could vary in thickness as necessary. Lockheed declined to provide further details, citing classification. Without further evidence, fiber mat would imply use of fibers, rather than particles, which would make for stronger surfaces and the word “conductive” points to carbon-based RAM.
But only a month before Burbage’s disclosure, Lockheed filed a patent claiming the first method of producing a durable RAM panel. The patent details a method for growing carbon nanotubes (CNT) on any kind of fiber—glass, carbon, ceramic or metal—with unprecedented precision in control of length, density, number of walls, connectivity and even orientation. The CNT-infused fibers can absorb or reflect radar, and connectivity among the CNTs provides pathways for induced currents.
Significantly, the CNTs can be impregnated with iron or ferrite nanoparticles. Fibers can have differing CNT densities along their lengths and homogenous fibers can be layered or mixed. The embodiments described include front layers with impedance matching air, use of quarter-wavelength depths for cancellation, stepped or continuous CNT-density gradients and continuously varying densities at specific depths for broadband absorption. The fibers can be disposed with “random orientation” in materials including “a woven fabric, a non-woven fiber mat and a fiber ply.”
The patent claims composites with CNT-infused fibers are capable of absorbing EM waves from 0.1 MHz to 60 GHz, a bandwidth unheard of in commercial absorbers, with particular effectiveness in L- through K-band. The patent does not quantify the absorptivity, but does say the panels would be “nearly a black body across . . . various radar bands.” Also, interestingly, a layer can be composed so an attached computer can read the induced currents in the fibers, making the layer a radar receiver.
While the patent mentions stealth aircraft, it does not mention the F-35 specifically, and the manufacturing readiness level of the material at the time it was granted is not known. But the proximity in timing and technology of the filing to the “fiber mat” disclosure is hard to ignore. Asked to comment on whether CNT-infused fiber RAM is in use on the F-35 and whether it is the technology to which Burbage had referred, Lockheed Martin spokesman Mike Rein stated only, “We have nothing to add to what was outlined in the patent submittal.”
Köh köh ei muutan taida olla L-taajuuskaan F-35:n tappaja.
http://aviationweek.com/aircraft-design/magic-behind-radar-absorbing-materials-stealthy-aircraft
But during development, something happened. First, program officials began hinting the F-35 might be stealthier than the F-22; hard to believe, given its less-disciplined shape. Then officials started referring to a material secret, a “conductive layer . . . where the magic happens.” In May of 2010, Tom Burbage, then executive vice president for the F-35 program, disclosed the incorporation of “fiber mat” technology, describing it as the “biggest technical breakthrough we’ve had on this program.”
The fiber mat would replace many RAM appliques by being cured into the composite skin, making it durable. Burbage further specified the mat featured a “non-directional weave”— which would ensure EM properties do not vary with angle. Baked into the skin, this layer could vary in thickness as necessary. Lockheed declined to provide further details, citing classification. Without further evidence, fiber mat would imply use of fibers, rather than particles, which would make for stronger surfaces and the word “conductive” points to carbon-based RAM.
But only a month before Burbage’s disclosure, Lockheed filed a patent claiming the first method of producing a durable RAM panel. The patent details a method for growing carbon nanotubes (CNT) on any kind of fiber—glass, carbon, ceramic or metal—with unprecedented precision in control of length, density, number of walls, connectivity and even orientation. The CNT-infused fibers can absorb or reflect radar, and connectivity among the CNTs provides pathways for induced currents.
Significantly, the CNTs can be impregnated with iron or ferrite nanoparticles. Fibers can have differing CNT densities along their lengths and homogenous fibers can be layered or mixed. The embodiments described include front layers with impedance matching air, use of quarter-wavelength depths for cancellation, stepped or continuous CNT-density gradients and continuously varying densities at specific depths for broadband absorption. The fibers can be disposed with “random orientation” in materials including “a woven fabric, a non-woven fiber mat and a fiber ply.”
The patent claims composites with CNT-infused fibers are capable of absorbing EM waves from 0.1 MHz to 60 GHz, a bandwidth unheard of in commercial absorbers, with particular effectiveness in L- through K-band. The patent does not quantify the absorptivity, but does say the panels would be “nearly a black body across . . . various radar bands.” Also, interestingly, a layer can be composed so an attached computer can read the induced currents in the fibers, making the layer a radar receiver.
While the patent mentions stealth aircraft, it does not mention the F-35 specifically, and the manufacturing readiness level of the material at the time it was granted is not known. But the proximity in timing and technology of the filing to the “fiber mat” disclosure is hard to ignore. Asked to comment on whether CNT-infused fiber RAM is in use on the F-35 and whether it is the technology to which Burbage had referred, Lockheed Martin spokesman Mike Rein stated only, “We have nothing to add to what was outlined in the patent submittal.”
Tuon etuhanF-35 suhteessa F-22 on ollut paljon helpompi huollettavuus. Mutta, ihan hyvin, jos erityisesti alhaisilla taajuuksilla päästään noin hyviin tuloksiin.
Merkitsee myös sitä, että B-21 on vielä entisestään stealthimpi erilaisia tutkajärjestelmiä vastaan. Ei ihme, että siihen panostetaan ja sitä halutaan hankkia niin monta kappaletta.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...said-to-need-500-million-more-for-development
"The Pentagon will need as much as $500 million extra to finish the development phase for Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35" (ei varmasti riitä)
"Gilmore, the testing director, said in an e-mail that he estimates flight testing required to complete the development phase won’t be finished until November 2018"
"In Gilmore’s memo, he cited issues including a 10-month delay to December in the release for flight testing of the latest version of the F-35’s most capable software; insufficient progress in flight testing of combat mission systems; questions about design deficiencies with the plane’s gun; too few aircraft available for flights; and as many as 1,179 “significant open” software deficiency reports."
"The Pentagon will need as much as $500 million extra to finish the development phase for Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35" (ei varmasti riitä)
"Gilmore, the testing director, said in an e-mail that he estimates flight testing required to complete the development phase won’t be finished until November 2018"
"In Gilmore’s memo, he cited issues including a 10-month delay to December in the release for flight testing of the latest version of the F-35’s most capable software; insufficient progress in flight testing of combat mission systems; questions about design deficiencies with the plane’s gun; too few aircraft available for flights; and as many as 1,179 “significant open” software deficiency reports."
http://breakingdefense.com/2016/11/jpo-to-lockheed-no-more-talkie-heres-lrip-9-deal/
"In an extraordinary action, the F-35 Joint Program Office decided 14 or 18 months of negotiations was enough and has issued a “unilateral contract” for the latest Low Rate Initial Production contract to defense giant Lockheed Martin."
"In simple terms, the Pentagon got sick and tired of talking with Lockheed and told them, here’s how much we’re willing to pay you. Take it or leave it. All terms had been agreed to by both sides except one — the price."
http://insidedefense.com/insider/lockheed-disappointed-dods-61b-f-35-lrip-definitized-contract-award
6,1 miljardilla dollarilla 42kpl A, 13kpl B ja 2kpl C-mallia. Moottorit ja piilokulut eivät sisälly hintaan. Olettaen, että LM suostuu valmistamaan koneet tähän hintaan.
"In an extraordinary action, the F-35 Joint Program Office decided 14 or 18 months of negotiations was enough and has issued a “unilateral contract” for the latest Low Rate Initial Production contract to defense giant Lockheed Martin."
"In simple terms, the Pentagon got sick and tired of talking with Lockheed and told them, here’s how much we’re willing to pay you. Take it or leave it. All terms had been agreed to by both sides except one — the price."
http://insidedefense.com/insider/lockheed-disappointed-dods-61b-f-35-lrip-definitized-contract-award
6,1 miljardilla dollarilla 42kpl A, 13kpl B ja 2kpl C-mallia. Moottorit ja piilokulut eivät sisälly hintaan. Olettaen, että LM suostuu valmistamaan koneet tähän hintaan.
Nhhk
Kenraali
Ottamatta millään muotoa kantaa hävittäjän ominaisuuksiin niin tässä on taas varoittava esimerkki kuinka voi käydä typerästi kun asioista päättää väärät ihmiset
Tämähän lähtee siitä, että on päätetty doktriiniksi Carrier Enabled Power Projection (CEPP).
Se päätettyä oli varaa kahteen tukialukseen. Kunnon katapulttiin ei kuitenkaan. Hävittäjä on kuriositeetti tässä kuviossa, vaikka olisi kannattanut ajatella alussa onko järkeä kokonaisuudessa jos ei aio hankkia riittävästi niitä?
Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers Air Maritime Integration (RN slideshow 2016)
http://www.williamsfoundation.org.au/resources/Documents/WF_AIRSEA_160810_Walker.pdf
Carrier Enabled Power Projection: Delivering for Britain or Papering over the Cracks? Exerting Influence in an Age of Austerity
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA627264
Viimeksi muokattu:
HotShot
Luutnantti
Brittien Queen Elizabeth luokan tukialusten rakentaminen on ollut farssia alusta lähtien. Projekti on ollut käynnissä lähes 20 vuotta, ensimmäisen aluksen rakentaminen alkoi 2009 ja se aloittaa koepurjehdukset ensi vuoden aikana. Lähes koko projektin ajan on ollut kahdet piirustukset kun ei osattu päättää tehdäänkö niistä katapulteilla ja jarruvaijereilla varustettuja oikeita tukialuksia vai hyppyrillä varustettuja yksinkertaisempia.
Aluksi päätettiin että HMS Queen Elizabeth varustettaisiin hyppyrillä ja HMS Prince of Wales katapulteilla. Suunnitelmaa muutettiin QE:n jo ollessa rakenteilla että siihenkin asenetaan katapultit ja F-35 hävittäjien tilaus muutettiin B-versiosta C-versioksi. Päätös uhkasi koko F-35B-version tulevaisuutta, Yhdysvaltain merijalkaväki nosti äläkän että heillä ei ole muuta vaihtoehtoa. Rakennustöitä jatkettiin ja ei kulunut vuottakaan kun edelliset päätökset peruttiin ja molemmat tukialukset päätettiin varustaa hyppyreillä, konemalli vaihtui takaisin F-35B:ksi.
Britit ovat lupautuneet hankkia 138 kpl F-35 hävittäjiä mutta tietääseni he ovat vasta tilanneet 48 F-35B mallia, jos loput koneista on A-mallia niin RAF on varmaankin tyytyväinen. Noista 48:sta B-versiosta ei saa täyttä konevahvuutta kahdelle tukialukselle joten britit tarjoavat ylimääräistä tukialus kapasiteettia USMC:lle. Tukialusten roolia on muutettu niin että niistä tulisi monitoimialuksia joissa olisi hävittäjien lisäksi erilaisia merijalkaväen helikopterieta ja maihinnousujoukkoja. Uuteen roolitukseen liittyy myös se että helikopteritukialus HMS Ocean on tarkoitus poistaa käytöstä lähiaikoina.