F-35:ssa on "köyhän miehen AWACS kun ilmassa useampi kone" ja sillä on ilman podeja EW-kykyä. Miten arvioitte muut? Olisiko niitä varaa varustaa niin? Onko sillä edes merkitystä kun kokonaismäärä on niin pieni, ettei mielellään pyhittäisi yksittäisiä koneita tällaiselle tukitoiminnalle?
Kyllä teknologia siirrot ovat relevantteja.
Mielestäni kannattaa panostaa sellaiseen tekniikkaan, jonka käytettävyys säilyy ja laajenee muun osallistuvan joukon mukana!
Jos JAS ei sisällä tällaisia mahdollisuuksia, niin selkeästi pitää se vaatia, ellei sitä voida toimittaa, sitten ulos kisasta.
Koneenahan JAS voi olla hyväkin, pieni, kevyt, näppärä... Mutta jos se ei "keskustele" ja laajenna näkemäänsä sotatantereella, niin aika tarpeeton kapistus..
Ei huolta, TBman. Jo Suomen nykyisin käytössä oleva Hornet on verkottuva ja keskustelee ja vaihtaa tilannekuvaa ja laajentaa sitä.
Kaikki uudet hävittäjäehdokkaat ovat todennäköisesti Suomen Hornettia sitten parempia. Typhoonista en ole tosin ihan varma, onko merkittävästi parempi.
Mutta, erityisesti Gripen NG ja F-35 (uusimpina koneina) ovat erityisen kehittyneitä tässä. Niillä on myös hyvin kehittyneet EW/ECM-kyvyt (Rafalessa kyllä samoin). Verkottuneina pystyvät jokainen toimimaan eräänlaisina mini-awacseina.
Tässä seuraavassa on kuvattu perinteisen Gripenin toimintaa. Gripen NG on tuosta sitten vielä kehittyneempi.
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One Gripen can provide radar sensing for four of its colleagues, allowing a single fighter to track a target, while the others use the data for a stealthy attack. TIDLS also permits multiple fighters to quickly and accurately lock onto a target's track through triangulation from several radars; or allows one fighter to jam a target while another tracks it; or allows multiple fighters to use different radar frequencies collaboratively to "burn through" jamming transmissions. TIDLS also gives the Gripen transparent access to the SAAB-Ericsson 340B Erieye "mini-AWACs" aircraft, as well as the overall ground command and control system. This system provides Sweden with an impressive defensive capability at a cost that, though still high, is less than that of comparable systems elsewhere.
TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state. The TIDLS is fundamentally different from broadcast-style links like Link 16. It serves fewer users but links them more closely together, exchanging much more data, and operating much closer to real time.
TIDLS information, along with radar, EW, and mapping data, appears on the central MFD. The display reflects complete sensor fusion: a target that is being tracked by multiple sources is one target on the screen. Detailed symbols distinguish between friendlies, hostiles, and unidentified targets and show who has targeted whom.
Today, Sweden is the only country that is flying with a link of this kind.
The Flygvapnet has already proven some of the tactical advantages of the link, including the ability to spread the formation over a much wider area. Visual contact between the fighters is no longer necessary, because the datalink shows the position of each aircraft. Leader and wingman roles are different: the pilot in the best position makes the attack, and the fact that he has targeted the enemy is immediately communicated to the three other aircraft.
A basic use of the datalink is "silent attack." An adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by a fighter radar that is outside missile range. He may not be aware that another, closer fighter is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a missile launch without using its own radar. After launch, the shooter can break and escape, while the other fighter continues to pass tracking data to the missile. In tests, Gripen pilots have learned that this makes it possible to delay using the AMRAAM's active seeker until it is too late for the target to respond.
But the use of the link goes beyond this, towards what the Swedish Air Force calls "samverkan," or close-cooperation. One example is the use of the Ericsson PS-05/A radar with TIDLS. An Ericsson paper compares its application, with identical sensors and precise knowledge of the location of both platforms, to human twins: "Communication is possible without explaining everything."
"Radar-samverkan," the Ericsson paper suggests, equips the formation with a super-radar of extraordinary capabilities. The PS-05/A can operate in passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). Two PS-05/As can exchange information by datalink and locate the target by triangulation. The target's signals will often identify it as well.
The datalink results in better tracking. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The datalink allows the radars to share plots, not just tracks, so even if none of the aircraft in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively.
Each radar plot includes Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. However, this data on its own does not yield the velocity of the target. Using the TIDLS, two fighters can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target's track instantly, reducing the need for radar transmission.
In ECM applications, one fighter can search, while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the radar. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the radar that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique is for all four radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies.
Our Swedish Data-link updates every second (or faster
, as compared to Link16 (every twelfth second) This makes it possible for us to fly 'radar silent' and even shoot its missiles from it without any own radar. And the data-link is able to steer you in, in every detail (close control) through its data commands. Which means that Gripen will be very operational even with its radio totally jammed. The NATO variant Link16 can, if I'm correct, open up to four(?) 'timeslots/channels' and if you place them correctly in time, give you a update every third second. (But we can also do that kind of stuff and as our systems each update every second by themselves (or faster
you might wonder how much info we would be able to transmit that 'NATO' way opening new 'timeslots'. Not that I know of course, just guessing here
Our system have the possibility to use AWACS and satellites and 'peer2peer'. It seems to me that Link16 first handedly is a 'centralized' system, now also trying to in cooperate some of the Swedish 'ideas'. As for what is best in a battle situation? I prefer the one with the most options myself, and that's not Link16. And it's not only Gripen using our system, it's used in all types of military vehicles, that's why it is so redundant. And that's why we still will have a 3-D sphere of information, even when all AWACS is down.
Saab tekee hyvää ja runsasta markkinointimateriaalia, ja kukapa ei tykkäisi altavastaajasta. Mikäs siinä, hyvää työtä ja hyviä koneita ovat tehneet. Tämä keskustelu täällä on kuitenkin ajoittaisista nosteista huolimatta melko maltillista ja asiantuntevaa moniin muihin foorumeihin verrattuna, enkä ole ihan varma että tarvitseeko sitä keskustelun luonnetta aina lähteä niin paljoa analysoimaan, senkun osallistuu tai jättää osallistumasta.