Ukrainan konflikti/sota

[Myrskyhiiri]

Kas tällaista pitää kunnon sodanajan propagandan, eikun siis mediavalistuksen ja moraalinnostatuksen olla.

https://www.facebook.com/CTBDonbas?fref=ts

Ukrainian Volunteer Defense Force "Donbas"
17 tuntia sitten · Muokattu
Defense Force “Donbas” has surprised the foreign journalists shockingly.

Yesterday the third battalion of the National Guard of Ukraine ‘Donbas” has taken oath of allegiance as a new military unit. Before that, on Thursday, a group of foreign journalists visited “Donbas”. They arrived with several interpreters and asked for an opportunity to communicate with the fighters. They came up to a rank of 460 fighters dressed in unmatched camouflage and were shocked to hear… English! As it turns out, at least 40 of DFD fighters speak English freely. It turns out that in civil life the people holding automatic guns now are chief financial executives, marketing managers, programmer, lawyers of Donetsk and Luhansk corporations and international corporations as well. Of course, they could settle comfortably in any country, they could get a nice and quiet job in any part of the world, but they do not want to lead a life of office plankton. Those Men, those Citizens put off their business for later and made a decision to protect their Motherland with weapons in their hands. They parked their “Lexuses” and “Mercedeses” and went to plow through the dirt during tactical trainings and to run around shooting grounds upon the orders from the instructors. The do not ask to ease-off, they only ask to teach them as much as possible, because they are determined to free their Donbass with weapons…

I personally was greatly moved by a 55 year old fighter, a former USA citizen of Ukrainian origin, a businessman owning a big house, several cars and having a thriving life, big family and grandchildren who refused his USA citizenship and acquired Ukrainian nationality in order to be able to help in liberating our Motherland. He is a man with an automatic gun who does not measure life and honour in amounts of money in bank account.

Afterwards there was practice on the training grounds carried out by yet another “Donbas” volunteer, who was wearing a Jewish kippah. He laughs: “It is to make sure that there are no doubts who are antifascists here”.

The group of volunteers demonstrated in action police antiterrorist tactics including shooting.
The ranks broke up upon the order “Dismissed!” and interesting communication started. In English. And everybody forgot that this noisy, open, intellectual community without any subordination in conversations but evidently based on partnership and brotherhood is actually a military unit. It seemed absolutely incredible that these people, who share their impressions about the recent journeys around Europe, could have abandoned their prosperous comfortable lives and armed themselves with automatic guns and sniper rifles since it is clear that weapons are not a weekend game for them, but a real tool.

I personally do not know if the volunteer defense forces can become the basis for creating new Ukrainian military. But I wish that every our military unit would consist of such fighters and would have the same human relations within it.

But I am absolutely positive, that those incredible men are the real Ukrainian elite. They are the citizens who understand that Motherland is not just a place where you earn money and lead a beautiful life. Motherland is a land that you will protect at any price, even if the price is your life.

“Donbas” moves out to Donbass.
Glory to Ukraine.

Yuriy Butusov, UAINFO: http://uainfo.org/yandex/344794-batalon-donbass-shokiroval-inostrannyh-zhurnalistov.html

 

[Myrskyhiiri]

Siellä on koulutettu kaikki... isänmaalliset aikuiset naisetkin.

https://www.facebook.com/CTBDonbas?fref=ts

Ukrainian Volunteer Defense Force "Donbas"
22 tuntia sitten · Muokattu
Soldier “Masyanya” says about her service in “Donbas”: “It must be the call of the heart”

Defense Force “Donbas” consists not only of men-volunteers, there is a “women company” as well. Six women fight side-by-side with the men. NV (Ukrainian news journal) talked with one them, who serves now in the ATO (anti-terrorist operation) area in Donbass.
She introduces herself as Masyanya, she is reluctant to disclose her real name for the reason that her relatives still do not know that she went to the war.

Masyanya is a builder in her civil life. The other five women also gave up their private business activities in order to join the Force. It is a first combat experience for most of them. “I did not participate in fights much in my peaceful life” – says Masyanya.

All the six of them joined DFD to aid men and help the country. None of them thought about money. Each one of them helps in her own way: some serve as medical assistants, some are actively engaged in battle groups.

Masyanya is a fighter.

DFD was ambushed near Karlovka about a month ago; armed terrorists from the “Vostok” battalion were lying in wait for them. As a result of this unequal battle (“Vostok” terrorists were armed with heavy weapons) “Donbas” has lost five fighters, another six were wounded.

Masyanya recalls: “There were only two women back than. We were driving around searching for the missing guys. It was the most difficult thing - our fear for them.”

Training is not that hard, if there is a will. Right now “recruits” are not accepted to the Force – it is commissioned already and it would be difficult for the newcomers to catch up with the military training. But it is possible to join new Defense Force “Crimea” which is being created by Semyonchenko.

“Anybody can try” – says Masyanya and adds: “But it must be the call of the heart”.

Soldiers are genderless.
“Women company” started with correspondence on Facebook with commander of Defense Force “Donbas” Semyon Semyonchenko, the women call him Commander with a capital “C”.

The term “gender” is absent in DFD. Men and women are in equal conditions, they train together in one group. Their daily routine is the same: reveille, morning exercise at 6:15, breakfast, forming-up, training, dinner, forming-up, supper, lights-out. The fighters have some personal time only in the morning before 9:00 and in the evening after 19:00.

“We have brotherhood here. We are sisters, they are brothers” – says Masyanya.

There is no martinetism in DFD; and there are no “women tricks”.

“If you put helmet on your head, bulletproof vest on your body, make-up on your face and it is 40 degrees outside, then make-up gets ruined very quickly” – says Masyanya.

The women do not complain about the conditions of life, but nobody provides them any “special” conditions. Well, may be their tent is a bit more comfortable than men's – with mattresses, blankets, a kettle and mirrors.

“Nobody freezes, the food is wonderful” – tells the warrior woman.

All the six women are married. The husbands accepted their wives' desire to help the country with understanding.

‘My husband supports me entirely, unlike my relatives, who took the side of separatists” – tells Masyanya.

Her husband is disabled, otherwise he would have been the first to join “Donbas”. When Masyanya was leaving to the war, he saw her off with the words: “you go to serve for both of us”.

Masyanya does not plan to continue military service after the ATO (anti-terrorist operation) is over; she wants to go back home to peaceful life.

Masyanya is on the left.

 

[TT]

En huomannut tätä linkatun vielä, pahoittelen jos tulee tupla... Poroshenkon haastattelu 29.5. Novaja Gazetassa juuri ennen valintaa.

http://en.novayagazeta.ru/investigations/63803.html

Omia huomioita: Luottavainen vaalivoittoonsa. Hyvin realistinen ote asioihin. Venäjän suuntaan sovitteleva mutta yllättävänkin jämäkkä, mm. sanoo suoraan että Krimin valtausta ei Ukraina tule koskaan hyväksymään. Muutenkin mielestäni harvinaisen selväsanainen poliitikko.

Mielenkiintoista seurata miten nuo puheet pitää kun tilanne kehittyy.

Tuo haastattelu on pitkähkö pötkö mutta laitan tekstinkin tänne kun NG:n kanssa ei aina tiedä miten on näkyvissä. (Saitti oli huhtikuussa reilun viikon täysin jumissa, ei tullut edes virheilmoitusta. Herätti pari ajatusta mutta onneksi on toiminut hyvin sen jälkeen.)


Pyotr POROSHENKO: "Our nations are already paying a very high price"


"The first visit won't be to Brussels, Moscow, or Washington, but to Donbas"

— Pyotr Alexeyevich, you told me in the interview half a year ago that a war between the Russian and Ukrainian nations is absolutely impossible. Have you changed your opinion?

— De-facto Russia has acted as an aggressor, de-facto it has occupied Crimea, and yes, regrettably, but nobody could even imagine the current situation back then (half a year ago — P.K.). I mean, the tragedy is that everything created during several centuries, those unique relationships between our nations, were instantly destroyed. Unfortunately, our nations are already paying a very high price for this.

— How to avoid escalation?

— Emotions should go away, there are far too many of them. We should realize this is not the eighteenth century. You can't be happy, taking a piece away from your neighbour. This may well result in an ulcer for generations ahead. How to reduce tensions? We should try to reverse the status-quo and sort out the causes, but the real ones and not the imaginary. In fact, the talk about the need to defend Russian speaking inhabitants of Crimea - this is a kind of nonsense. Is this not Crimea, where Russian speaking people have always ruled and had significant privileges before others? In contrast, Ukrainian speaking residents and Crimean Tatars are on the verge of humanitarian disaster in Crimea today. On the 70th anniversary of Crimean Tatars deportation, their peaceful gatherings were prohibited at all. People just wanted to go out and pay tribute to their innocently martyred grandparents, but they simply were not allowed to do this. What kind of de-escalation we are talking about here?

— You have already announced that as a president you would not plan to visit Brussels, Moscow, or Washington first, but Donbas.

— Yes, I'm going to Donbas.

— Do you realize how controversial the people can react? Are you ready?

— Of course, I'm ready. I have already been to Donetsk, to Lugansk. I imagine the reaction.

— Timoshenko just did not leave the airport…

— Well, I went to mines, and to the university, and to Izvarino, and along the border. I don't mean somebody has more courage or less, I mean: the situation can't be stabilized without a dialog. Should Donbas be heard? Yes, indeed. I'm telling people: the visit's aim is to hear you. Not terrorists, not murderers, not machine gunners, who are shooting dead entire families, women, priests, terrorizing people, farmers, even taxi drivers who bring cigarettes for Ukrainian troops at roadblocks. Again, this visit is an opportunity for the dialog. I am sure this is the president who should provide guarantees for Donbas residents today, and be further responsible for their implementation. The guarantees for security, protection of rights of Russian speaking inhabitants, guarantees for decentralization of power. Through this particular dialog with people we should try to go out of the conflict. Not through the dialog with terrorists.

"Criminals want to arrange something like "The cold summer of 53rd", like Somalia"

— Can't you see that everything had got all mixed up there? There are militants, there are civil inhabitants who voluntarily go against tanks, and there are numerous sympathizers.

— Not now. Listen, the separation is already in progress, and we see this. Take a look by yourself! Back in the beginning, the terrorists were telling locals: we came to defend you, Russian speaking people, your interests, and to demand federalization. Look now: the majority of those "defenders" have become trivial bandits and looters. There is no food supply to the cities, banks stopped working, and there is increasing number of robberies; cash-in-transit couriers who transfer pensions and wages are under attack every other day. The plants have stopped, because the terrorists blow up transformer substations, seize the railway. Those living in Donbas are paying for all this. The bandits intend to intimidate people, and the sense of fear will allow them to maintain their robber den, where they will rule by machine guns. After all, they are not interested in Russia, in any kind of federalization or in the Russian language, no. They want to arrange something like "The cold summer of 53rd", like Somalia for themselves there. This is what we should protect the Donbas people from.

There is another aspect — if Donbas people have claims to the authorities, they are dissatisfied, and they have demands, then you are welcome, there is the institute of elections. People should elect their representatives, their deputies, majors, and their president who will protect them. I will do this first of all.

— OK. You are going to Donetsk soon, and the people will say: we did not elect you. In fact, all voting stations were paralyzed there.

— These are the bandits who block voting stations, because they are afraid of the elections. Why are they afraid and want to disrupt them? Because the people will immediately show by their votes that they are tired of the disorder. You don't necessarily have to vote for Poroshenko. Vote for whoever you want! After all, what is the tragedy of Donbas now? It has remained without a single person, who would carry the voices of the people. People hate communists there; they treat "Regions party" as betrayers, and Kiev administration, mildly speaking, too.

— Here is Akhmetov.

— Attitude towards Akhmetov differs, as well. Some people sympathize him, some quite the contrary. There is no legitimate all-uniting force here.

"I won't look back at Russian propaganda"

— Are you ready to grant certain special privileges to the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions?

— Do you think the people who live there should get more, than all others?

— I think, there is an acute conflict there, which should be stopped.

— Of course, however, we are not talking about some exclusive rights, but about how to protect people from fears and phobias, which were imposed on them by local kinglets and bandits. After all, they frightened with the "Right Sector" one day, with Benderists or Jewish Benderists the other day, or with prosecutions for speaking Russian. This is just nonsense... Therefore, we have to give people clear guaranties in such circumstances. If you want to implement your demands, I say it again, there are elections. Elect your authorities, majors, city councils. We are ready to considerably, I emphasize, considerably expand their powers. But armed people must go, they must stop the terror.

— By the way, don't you think that the antiterrorist operation (ATO), conversely, contributes to the conflict and involves even more people into it? To the locals, Russian TV presents every operation of the Ukrainian army as a punitive action. And Donbas people can watch only Russian channels.

— The channels absolutely do not need any reasons and even real shots for their propaganda, they can simply make them up. Therefore, I won't look back at the Russian propaganda in my actions. You should understand, there is an information war against Ukraine right now. There is deliberate destabilization, there are special lies under way, and we have to stop them. Russia, as no one else, should be interested to stabilize the West, believe me. The trouble spot, which is increasingly difficult to contain, is now emerging just near its border. The artificially created spot can grow the way, which will affect Russia, too.

"Yanukovich's people deployed mercenary recruiting camps in the Rostov Region"

— Who, do you think, have organized this spot?

— In the beginning, these were the family of the runaway president (Yanukovich — P.K.), his clan. First, they started stirring Crimea. They thought, they would return and settle down there. Then they were surprised that people in Crimea hated them even more than in mainland Ukraine. And they decided: OK, well, we've failed in Crimea, why don't we return at least to Donetsk? They started actively financing subversive activities there. They deployed mercenary recruiting camps in the Rostov Region. They have thrown millions of dollars on this. However, the scheme doesn't work for them anyway. It works for general destabilization, but it doesn't guarantee a safe return scenario for their family. What is the outcome? Clenching their teeth, people can live in this nightmare for two weeks, three, a month - in the atmosphere of ideological euphoria. Then the rose-coloured spectacles drop down, and people see the actual picture. They see that there are no defenders of fatherland, but there are criminals, former corrupted policemen, riff-raffs, who got arms. There are figures, which cannot be hidden, that over 80 locals have been shot by these criminals and visiting bandits, so called volunteers.

— Do you mean Russians?

— Generally, I think, there is an explosive mix out there. At first, yes, people from Russia played the key role there. Now, we should be fair, the number of Russians decreased, since you don't already need this many experts for guerrilla warfare. Now they recruited a kind of riff-raffs, someone for money, someone was attracted by unpunished looting opportunity, and the round-the-clock outrage began.

«The price of the second round is three more weeks of chaos and human victims. I expect to win in the first round

— They say a lot that along with the Yanukovich family, the war is interesting for "Kremlin hawks" and, of course, for Yulia Timoshenko, who significantly lags behind you. That they make a union together...

— I don't comment conspiracy theories.

— Ukrainian politicians have already publicly spoken out on this union.

— I neither confirm nor deny it. Now I can acknowledge only one thing: the elections unite these scoundrels and support their morale. I mean, their objective is the fight against the elections; they aim to wreck the elections. If we fail to conduct the election, if we postpone them, we'll simply prolong the chaos, which is so comfortable for the bandits.

— This means that you presume the victory in the first round? Is it possible?

— Why not?

— Do you think, they'll allow you to win so easily with no attempts to wreck?

— Of course, they will try to wreck! But we won't let them. We won't allow them. I recently returned from the tour, travelled around the country for a month and a half. You can't imagine, to what extend the crisis has become a uniting factor for the Ukrainians, it is just amazing. It is a great feeling, to watch tens of thousands of people singing the Ukrainian anthem not only in the squares of Ternopol or Zhitomir regions, but in Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, Kherson regions, as well as in Ilyichevsk, Melitopol, everywhere. Do you understand? Previously, it was the belt of so called Novorussia, but now there are Ukrainian flags everywhere: in residential windows, in balconies, in cars. You can't fake this! These are not administrative buildings, but ordinary citizens! The villains, terrorizing the East, realize they have no chances there.

— Anyway, are your sure about the first round?

— I mean, a victory in the first round is very rare in democratic countries, it is rather exceptional. However, the people here are so much longing for order, are so much tired from the chaos that probability of the single round is very high. The price of the second round is three more weeks of chaos, human victims, and economic losses.

"I personally asked our special services for journalists from Russia"

— Pyotr Alekseyevich, I would like to talk about the attitude of Ukrainian authorities towards journalists from Russia. The extremely negative image of Russian mass media has been established in Ukraine for a long time. Of course, there is every reason for this. But, don't you think that Ukrainian authorities are increasingly overreacting? This issue with the Lifenews staff. Whatever the media's reputation, don't you see overreacting here, when the TV crew are accused of terrorism (by the moment of interview recording, it was unknown that the Lifenews team were released — P.K.)?

— I would very much like to hear how these reporters would comment those videos, where they are regulating terrorists firing from MANPADs (talk about the video with the Lifenews sign, where the operator commands militants' actions — P.K.)

— This video clip was shown in the SSU (Security Service of Ukraine). Can the SSU be 100 percent trusted?

— I think, one can believe that video, where the reporters regulate the fire.

— But Lifenews could simply use another's video and put up their sign the way they often do.

— This is entirely possible. This is precisely why the reporters should have explained everything.

— They were not allowed. Both the lawyers and observers were kept out.

— In my view, the OSCE observers should always have access in such situations. I don't see any problem here. But to demand the immediate release - I beg your pardon. If you, a journalist from the Novaya Gazeta newspaper or, for instance, our Fifth channel, no matter, take a LAW, MANPAD, two machine guns, go to Chechnya during a counterterrorist operation, and you are arrested by FSB agents with these arms. I'd like to ask, what happens to you after that? Just imagine you with all these arms somewhere near Khasavyurt, and on the top of that you have a video in your pocket showing you commanding where to shoot, how to kill, where to run. What kind of reaction from law enforcement authorities do you want? But I reiterate the observers should have access.

— OK. But why are even independent journalists from mass media uncontrolled by Russian authorities turned back on the border all the time?

— I can't answer here. However, I have to say, I personally asked our special services for journalists from Russia who asked for help. Of course, there are certain criteria to consider regarding mass media staff members. Especially when, as you can see, the informational war against the Ukraine is in progress. Information is distorted, this propaganda, pouring from screens of Russian TV, has nothing to do with journalism. Yes, of course, first of all we enjoy the freedom of speech, and everyone may say whatever they want, but if they start subversive activities, there is responsibility for this. The verge must not be overpassed.

"Take a walk around the market, may be, someone will take a shine to your gas"

— How do you plan restoring relations with Russia?

— There are several basic points. Ukraine and global community will never recognize the illegal Crimean referendum. Ukraine shall never recognize the annexation of Crimea. This will always be a point of tension. The most irrecoverable damage borne by the both parties is even not the money, not the sanctions. As I said earlier: relations between our nations are irreparably harmed. And we are only at the start.

— You mean, it's going to be worse?

— God forbid the further confrontation of our nations.

— Are not you against the war?

— I am against the war. At the same time, I am against that the majority of Russians approve military intervention and aggression towards Ukraine. This is insanity! Our 45 million country cannot understand why Russia had to attack Ukraine! What kind of justification can be for this aggression against a friendly country? We have to find the way out of the situation.

— How?

— We have to restore the confidence. We have to restore the status-quo somehow. There were a lot of emotions, a lot of personal in Crimea. We have to find a pragmatic approach. Yes, there is the Crimea problem; there is the problem of integration choice for Ukraine. But we are ready to negotiate all other points.

— Including the gas? How exactly?

— What is special about the natural gas? Russia is ready to sell it at 300 dollars to China, plus the pipeline thousand and thousand kilometres long has to be built. That's OK. At the same time Russia wants to sell it already at 500 to Ukraine. That's OK. But Ukraine won't buy this gas, it doesn't need it.

— How to solve the energy problem for Ukraine then?

— Believe me, it will be completely solved in two years.

— How to live right now? In autumn, when the heating season will start?

— We have a plan. First, we'll import the reverse-flow gas. Second, we'll reduce our consumption. Third, we'll develop the shale gas technology and build the liquefied gas terminal; we already have agreements with our American partners to deliver it here. You, in Russia, should finally understand: you should stop using gas as your stick, this is just a commodity. The time for sticks and blackmail is over, the stick won't work anymore. Neither with Ukraine nor with other European countries.
About the winter - we have record high gas reserves now. Plus, I reiterate, the reverse flow from Slovakia is starting in autumn, plus reverse flow from Hungary, Poland. Yes, we have used the market principle to solve the problem. Russia wants to sell us the gas at 500 dollars? We don't need it, thank you. Take a walk around the market, may be, someone will take a shine to. We are not interested in gas at this price. We were interested before, not now. Why was it different before? Because the price of the gas always had a certain corruption component, built into it by previous Ukrainian authorities. It should not exist now and it will not. At the same time, I do not say: "We'll manage without your Russian gas!" I say: "Let's find a sound market approach."

Diversification of energy supply is generally a normal way for a competitive economy. Europe does it, we will, and Russia, in the case with the Chinese contract, will work at the same diversification of markets. It's normal. The gas is generally much overstressed in interstate relations. I will do everything to let this subject leave the dialog between our countries.

Crimea: "So what - if they, in Kremlin, want it? This is not the God's will"

— And Moscow will do everything to let Crimea subject to leave.

— Pardon me. Gas is the subject for business entities. Crimea is the subject of sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. Do you understand the difference? Please, deliver it to Russians and to your readers.

— As you understand, they, in Kremlin, want to close the Crimea issue as much as possible.

— So what - if they in Kremlin want it? This is not the God's will. This is just the position of one party in negotiations. This position is unacceptable for us. Period. Not ellipsis.

— Many people are worried that capabilities of the future president will be rather limited by current chaos in the state machine, the situation in the East, Maidan, which have gained power. Cross impact of the West and Russia, after all.

— Do not believe. The president will be very strong. You know, by what? By the level of people's support and credit, which will be, and you will see this. Maidans won't affect the president, even if somebody wants it very much. Otherwise, Maidan will become a trivial political technology instead of the people's will. I know how to counter the technologies.
Next, on the West and Russia. Our positions are not and will not be deteriorated by the United States and EU. A friend in need is a friend indeed. The USA and EU have supported us both morally and financially, as well as in terms of security and solidarity during the difficult time.

About Timoshenko: "I don't know who you are talking about"

— After Geneva agreements, you would, probably, remember the talks started that the West gave up Ukraine and Crimea in a bargain with Russia, they started talking again about a "card to exchange".

— The talks that Ukraine has become a card to exchange in a game between the West and Russia are fairytales of Moscow propagandists. Show me just one example of how the West is exchanging Ukraine. Do you realize that taxpayers in Germany, France, and USA pay for solidarity with our country out of their own pockets? Where did you get these clichés about the exchange card? Please, do not read Soviet newspapers before dinner. Find other ones. They were not available in professor Preobrazhenskiy times, but now they are, thank goodness.

— How do you take Yulia Timoshenko's threats to arrange the third Maidan after your victory?

— As a technology of people who do not understand the essence of Maidan and haven't ever been at Maidan.

— But Timoshenko spoke there from the scene in a wheelchair.

— I don't know who you are talking about. As I know, those people who are talking about the third Maidan have not been there, in fact.

— Western media, even if we exclude "Soviet" titles, write that candidate Poroshenko has become a kind of a compromise person who satisfies both oligarchs and the West, and even Moscow. Aren't you offended by these opinions?

— Again, who says that? This is nonsense. I would like to tell you that candidate Pyotr Poroshenko satisfies the Ukrainian people. For the first time since independence, a real president of entire Ukraine can appear. Notice: four our former presidents were leaders of only one half of the country. Now your humble servant has a chance to become the leader in the overwhelming majority of regions. Respectful oligarchs, Moscow, Washington, Brussels, Beijing, and other capitals of the world, whatever they would like to, should understand: I will put the national interests of Ukraine first, but not any others. Period.

"I'm going to become the president of all Ukrainians - of the south, north, west, and east."

— Odessa. It is impossible to relieve tensions in southern regions and get moving without investigating the tragedy...

— We'll move, I promise. I have already talked about Odessa with Mr. Jagland, the Secretary General of the Council of Europe. We agreed to establish the Investigation panel to investigate the use of force and murders at Maidan on February 18-20. However, I'll extend the scope of commission activities to investigate the events in Odessa on May, 2 and in Mariupol on May, 9. I'm going to invite experts from the EU, Germany, where, by the way, there are the best experts in toxicology. I have already discussed this with Mrs. Chancellor. By the way, experts from Russia will be invited, too. Because we are interested in a transparent and impartial investigation. Everybody involved in the loss of life in Odessa, of both the participants of the Ukrainian rally who were shot dead from roofs and pro-Russian activists who were driven into the House of Unions and poisoned, everybody will be brought to justice. Having the findings of the investigation, I'll go to the people, including Donbas, for the people to know that I'm going to become the president of all Ukrainians - of the south, north, west, and east - and to protect them all.

The interview was recorded several hours before closing the polling stations.

P.S. According to exit polls, Pyotr Poroshenko has won the elections in the first round.

 

[sirppimestari]

More details to follow:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...-8-helicopter-Donetsk-militia-commander-4524/

Jos lasketaan 3 (lentäjät) ja 4 SBU henkilöstöä niin sitten jää vielä kaksi mysteeri henkilöä joiden kansallisuutta taikka erikoisosaamista ei tiedetä.

 

[Hanski]

More details to follow:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...-8-helicopter-Donetsk-militia-commander-4524/

Jos lasketaan 3 (lentäjät) ja 4 SBU henkilöstöä niin sitten jää vielä kaksi mysteeri henkilöä joiden kansallisuutta taikka erikoisosaamista ei tiedetä.

Mitä, eikö näiltä löytynytkään pravy sektorin käyntikortteja taskusta? Joku on nyt FSB:ssä tunaroinut...

 

[Siipimies]

More details to follow:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...-8-helicopter-Donetsk-militia-commander-4524/

Jos lasketaan 3 (lentäjät) ja 4 SBU henkilöstöä niin sitten jää vielä kaksi mysteeri henkilöä joiden kansallisuutta taikka erikoisosaamista ei tiedetä.

Tästä maanmainiosta propagandalähteestä löytyy sitten mm. seuraavanlaisia "uutisia":

Obama in Poland: the real danger is from the West
http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_06_02/Obama-in-Poland-the-real-danger-is-from-the-West-2264/

Ja samasta artikkelista löytyy erään "tunnetun länsimaisen asiantuntijan" lausunto siitä että EUta johtavat (kohta) fasistit. Sensijaan Ranskan " Le Front National" tai muut Euroopan äärioikeistolaiset eivät ole vaarallisia:

"The EU is gradually sliding towards fascism," said Jon Hellewig, a former candidate in the recent European parliamentary elections in Finland. "Contrary to many predictions, this new fascism is not coming from the stigmatized "far right" parties of Western Europe, like the French Le Front National. It will come from the European "mainstream" politicians who justify the truly Nazi violence in Ukraine simply because this violence is committed by people who swear allegiance to the EU.

Ja seuraavassa artikkelissa väitetään ettei Venäjä koskaan anneksoinut Krimiä tai puutu mitenkään Ukrainan kriisiin:

Russia never annexed Crimea, no plans to intervene in Ukraine, it's a Western delusion - Putin
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...vene-Ukraine-its-Western-delusion-Putin-5970/

Eli täyttä potaskaa. Itse en usko sanaakaan tämän lähteen tuotoksista, ellei niitä vahvisteta jostain riippumattomasta lähteestä.

 

[Vonka]

Ja samasta artikkelista löytyy erään "tunnetun länsimaisen asiantuntijan" lausunto siitä että EUta johtavat (kohta) fasistit. Sensijaan Ranskan " Le Front National" tai muut Euroopan äärioikeistolaiset eivät ole vaarallisia:

George Friedman on unkarilaistaustainen sotapelejä harrastava marxisti, joka on kirjoittanut meheviä teoksia mm. Amerikan "salaisesta sodasta". Varmasti sopiva siteerattava.

Closek tuossa esitelläänkin: puolalainen post-kommunisti ja Kremlin VIP.

Jon Hellevig... Kas kun ei jutussa mainita, miten tämän tyypin kampanjan kävi...

Joka tapauksessa tästäkin näkyy, että Venäjä mielellään siteeraa ketä tahansa länsimaalaista marginaali-ihmistä ja tekee heistä "asiantuntijoita" omaksi tuekseen. Bätmäniläisiä ja osa-aikabätmäniläisiä jne. Friedman jotain tietääkin, sillä kyllähän Amerikka suurvalta on oman pelinsä kanssa, ei sitä voi kiistää. Se pitää aina muistaa, mutta siihen ei pidä tuijottaa.

 

[Arti]

Sotilaan tehtävä on etsiä tappelua ja sitä nämä tekivät. Mielestäni nämä eivät tehneet mitään väärin. Heidän tehtävänsä oli tulla ruman näköisiksi raadoiksi, jota voidaan sitten käyttää vihan kylväntään separatisteja vastaan. Sen tämä video todellakin teki. Video herätti kostomielialaa, että jahka tulitauko päättyy niin näiden raatojen kaverit tämän videon nähtyään kostavat tämän. Seuraava näkymä on sitten varmaankin rekan peräkontti täynnä separatistien raatoja matkalla kotiin.

Putin on tähän kaikkeen syyllinen. Hän itse istuu tukevasti turvassa Kremlissä samalla, kun hän tapattaa vapaaehtoisesti lähteneitä tolloja itäisessä Ukrainassa. Jos tämä halutaan saada päättymään niin Putiniin pitää iskeä niin, että sattuu, että hän oppii, että hän ei ole turvassa tapattaessaan ihmisiä.

 

[sirppimestari]

"Putin on tähän kaikkeen syyllinen. Hän itse istuu tukevasti turvassa Kremlissä samalla, kun hän tapattaa vapaaehtoisesti lähteneitä tolloja itäisessä Ukrainassa. Jos tämä halutaan saada päättymään niin Putiniin pitää iskeä niin, että sattuu, että hän oppii, että hän ei ole turvassa tapattaessaan ihmisiä."

Miksi osoitat vain yhteen suuntaan? Mene iskemään Putinia jos olet tuota mieltä. Putinilla 7 danin vyö (rank) Judossa joten muista ottaa mukaan vähän särkylääkettä.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_celebrity_judoka

 

[Arti]

A. Venäjä luovuttaa ja antaa Ukrainan liittyä Euroopan Unioniin ja Natoon.

B. Ukraina luovuttaa ja lupaa Venäjälle, että Ukraina ei liity Euroopan Unioniin ja Natoon. Lisäksi Ukraina peruu assosiaatiosopimuksen allekirjoittamisen.

C. Ukraina jatkaa tavoitetta liittyä Euroopan Unioniin ja Natoon. Lisäksi Ukraina allekirjoittaa assosiaatiosopimuksen.

D. Ukraina sulkee rajan ja tuhoaa onnistuneesti rajan sisäpuolella olevat separatistit.

E. Ukraina uhkaa onnistua tuhota separatistit, jolloin Venäjä puuttuu peliin lähettämällä sotilaansa itäiseen Ukrainaan joka sytyttää täyden sodan Ukrainan ja Venäjän välille.

F. Ukraina ei onnistu sulkemaan rajaa. Separatistit etenevät järjestelmällisesti ja valtaavat koko itäisen ja eteläisen Ukrainan saaden yhteyden Krimille ilman, että Venäjän armeijan tarvitsee osallistua lainkaan.

G. Venäjän ja Ukrainan välillä alkaa sota, jonka ensimmäinen vaihe päättyy Ukrainan valtaamiseen kokonaisuudessaan. Venäjän tankit vyöryvät Kiovaan. Ukrainan hallitus joutuu pakenemaan Eurooppaan. Ukraina antautuu ja taistelut päättyvät siihen.

H. Venäjä valtaa koko Ukrainan ja taistelut jatkuvat sissisotana miehittäjää vastaan.

I. Venäjä valtaa vain itäisen ja eteläisen Ukrainan jättäen läntisen Ukrainan ja Kiovan rauhaan. Taistelut päättyvät siihen ja Ukraina sopeutuu tilanteeseen.

J. Venäjä valtaa vain itäisen ja eteläisen Ukrainan ja Ukraina ei sopeudu siihen vaan päättää vallata itäisen ja eteläisen Ukrainan ja Krimin takaisin.

K. Ukraina onnistuu vallata itäisen ja etäläisen Ukrainan ja Krimin takaisin ja Venäjä sopeutuu tappioonsa ja vetää joukkonsa takaisin.

L. Itäisen Ukrainan tilanne jatkuu nykyisellään vuosikausia. Venäjän talous alkaa horjua ja työttömyys kasvaa ja kansalaisten ostovoima laskea ja hinnat nousta. Moskovassa alkaa mellakat. Putin potkitaan vallasta. Venäjällä pidetään rehelliset presidentinvaalit ja parlamenttivaalit.

M. Eurooppa ja entisen Neuvostoliiton maat olivat luulleet, että Neuvostoliitto hajosi verettömästi. Näin ei ollutkaan vaan Kreml aloittaa verisen yrityksen koota Neuvostoliitto takaisin aloittamalla Ukrainasta koska Kreml arvelee Ukrainan olevan kovin vastus, joka pitää hoitaa ensiksi.

N. Venäjän talous alkaa horjua ja työttömyys kasvaa ja kansalaisten ostovoima laskea ja hinnat nousta. Moskovassa alkaa mellakat. Venäjän alueet käyttävät tilaisuuden ja päättävät yhteisellä päätöksellä hajoittaa Venäjän.

 

[Arti]

"Putin on tähän kaikkeen syyllinen. Hän itse istuu tukevasti turvassa Kremlissä samalla, kun hän tapattaa vapaaehtoisesti lähteneitä tolloja itäisessä Ukrainassa. Jos tämä halutaan saada päättymään niin Putiniin pitää iskeä niin, että sattuu, että hän oppii, että hän ei ole turvassa tapattaessaan ihmisiä."

Miksi osoitat vain yhteen suuntaan? Mene iskemään Putinia jos olet tuota mieltä. Putinilla 7 danin vyö (rank) Judossa joten muista ottaa mukaan vähän särkylääkettä.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_celebrity_judoka

Uskon, että sadat miljoonat ihmiset kaikkialla maapallolla ajattelevat samalla tavalla. Putin on politiikallaan hankkinut Venäjän melko vihatuksi maaksi. Uskon, että Ukrainassa ei varmaankaan löydy paljoakaan Venäjän ystäviä. Putin on tehnyt Venäjästä ahdistusta ja huolta naapurimaissa herättävän valtion. Minun arvoni ovat totuus, rehellisyys ja moraali. Jos näen, että jokin ihminen tai valtio ei toimi niillä periaatteilla voin tietysti sanoa, että onkohan näiden periaatteiden noudattamatta jättäminen ihan viisasta yleisessä kanssakäymisessä.

 

[Siipimies]

Mielenkiintoinen artikkeli Bloombergillä:
Putin Readies Stealth Mode in Ukraine
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-06-24/putin-readies-stealth-mode-in-ukraine

- Linkki Putinin ja Poroshenkon välillä näyttääkin olevan Viktor Medvedchuk. Hän ei siis edustanut separatisteja kuten luultiin.
- Putin uskoo edelleen että ainut mikä toimii on petos ja kaupankäynti
- Länsi uskottelee että sanktiot ovat tuottaneet tulosta

Jun 24, 2014 12:08 PM EDT
By Leonid Bershidsky

Russian President Vladimir Putin has officially agreed to leave Ukraine alone. That doesn't mean, though, that he will leave it alone unofficially.

Putin today asked the Russian parliament to cancel his mandate to send troops into Ukraine, which he had requested on March 1. That request led to the annexation of Crimea, and chilled relations between Russia and the West. It also had economic consequences, sending the ruble and Russian stocks tumbling and restricting Russia's access to global finance. Moscow's isolation created a $20 billion void in the global bond market, which was filled by issuers from other nations.

Putin's latest move, tantamount to a promise to refrain from military intervention, sent Russian stocks and bonds bounding up. Is it fair to assume, then, that the threat of wide-ranging sanctions against Russian companies worked? That Putin panicked and gave up his aggressive plans? That is certainly what Western politicians, including U.S. President Barack Obama, will now claim (while saying as little as they can about Crimea, which they have failed to prevent Russia from retaining). It will be true on some level, too; both Putin and Russia's Western business partners have signaled a desire to go back to business as usual, forgetting the annexation.

There is, however, more to Putin's sudden dovishness, which comes days after a new Russian troop buildup at the Ukrainian border. It appears to be a response to the Ukrainian government's sea change in approaching negotiations on the armed conflict in eastern Ukraine. Yesterday, after months of statements from officials in Kiev that the government would not negotiate with "terrorists," talks finally took place in Donetsk.

It was quite a cast of characters. On one side of the table, representing pro-Russian separatists, was Alexander Borodai, a Moscow political consultant now calling himself prime minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic; pro-Russian Ukrainian politician Oleg Tsaryov and several little-known local leaders. On the other side, seemingly representing the government of Ukraine, sat the Russian ambassador to Ukraine, Mikhail Zurabov, and two Kiev politicians: former president Leonid Kuchma and Viktor Medvedchuk, his former chief of staff, who is thought to be close to Putin. Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, representing the Organization for European Security and Cooperation, was also there, sanctifying the gathering.

Current Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko appeared almost Putinesque in his Byzantine handling of the talks. His envoy, Kuchma, holds no official position, nor does Medvedchuk, who met with Poroshenko before the talks. Officially, Kiev is not talking to the pro-Russian separatists and Moscow is not backing them. The pretense, understood by all, made progress possible. The separatists accepted Poroshenko's offer of a ceasefire until June 27, which they had previously dismissed as a ploy.

After the unofficial consultations -- the word "negotiations" was not uttered by Kiev representatives -- Putin called Obama. Next, he recalled his request for permission to invade Ukraine.

That doesn't mean Ukraine can breath a sigh of relief. "Putin has no intention to cease destabilizing the situation in our country," Ukrainian columnist Vitaly Portnikov wrote on Newsru.ua. "Putin just wants Obama to believe in his intentions. He is still convinced that only two tools work in global politics: deceit and bargaining."

Given his rubber-stamp parliament, Putin can gain permission to send troops back to Ukraine at any time. Besides, if Putin's goal is to keep Poroshenko off balance, an invasion isn't necessary. Russia has already succeeded in drawing out the conflict, arming rebels and making it possible for Russian citizens to fight on the separatists' side. So much for "deceit."

As for "bargaining," it has now started in Donetsk, with Ukrainians from both camps searching for compromise. Medvedchuk's ties to both Putin and Poroshenko -- along with the possible backing of one of Ukraine's richest men, Rinat Akhmetov -- suggests a resolution with the armed rebels is in sight. The rebels have been useful to Putin, but they are unreliable over the long term. The Kremlin prefers to work with familiar pro-Russian politicians and businessmen in Ukraine's east to make sure Ukraine doesn't end up in the Western bloc.

In effect, Putin is now ready to enter the quiet phase of his Ukraine operation. The West will acquiesce to his game -- but only after claiming that sanctions have been a success.

 

[rebane1]

Ehkä nuo uusnatsit sitten vaan rauhoittuvat kun konflikti on ohi, tai ehkä Ukrainasta löytyy Svinhufvud ja lojaali armeija, joka pistää ne ruotuun. Ehkä, ehkä.

Jugoslavian sodissa heitä taisi olla Kroatian armeijassa , josta sitten jatkoivat Bosnian kroaattiarmeijaan.
Kun rauha saatiin , he ovat sitten häipyneet julkisuudesta , korjatkaa jos olen väärässä.

Ei ollut hyvää politiikkaa Ukrainan hallitukselta sallia Pravyi Sektorin lipunheiluttajia Venäjän lähetystön edessä.

 

[Siipimies]

Interpretmag kertoo:
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrai...-revoke-right-to-deploy-army-to-ukraine/#3183

- Venäjä on siirtänyt MiG-29 laivueen Millerovoon 30 km:n päähän Ukrainan rajasta (kaupankäynnin valmistelua tai petos ? )
- Ulkrainan ulkoministeriö sanoo että Venäjä ohjaa separatisteja
- Pravyi Sektori on vallannut öljynjalostamon Kirovohradissa epäillessään että se rahoittaa separatisteja
- Mitkä sanktiot ? Venäjän RTS kolmanneksi parhaiten pärjännyt indeksi maailmassa
- Neljä ETYJ-tarkkailijaa saatetaan vapauttaa piakkoin

Ukraine Reporter:
Mass outrage in Ukraine after Merkel proposed & Poroshenko agreed that Putin associate Medvechuk act as intermediary in talks in E. Ukraine

Edit: Millerovo on siis 30 km:n päässä rajasta, ei 30 m:n (näppihäiriö/painovirhepaholainen )

 

[Vonka]

Jugoslavian sodissa heitä taisi olla Kroatian armeijassa , josta sitten jatkoivat Bosnian kroaattiarmeijaan.
Kun rauha saatiin , he ovat sitten häipyneet julkisuudesta , korjatkaa jos olen väärässä.

Olet oikeassa. Molemmin puolin on jonkin verran Balkanilla olleita ja vastakkain olivat silloinkin.

 

[sirppimestari]

Tässä vielä englanninkielinen käännös tuosta bat Aidarin viimeisestä taistelusta.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

"- Venäjä on siirtänyt MiG-29 laivueen Millerovoon 30 m:n päähän Ukrainan rajasta (kaupankäynnin valmistelua tai petos ? )"
No ainakin Ukrainan rajavartijat kuulevat milloin migit lähtevät kohti suurta Ukrainaa ! Ehkä ei todellista merkitystä ...

"- Ulkrainan ulkoministeriö sanoo että Venäjä ohjaa separatisteja"
onko tämä uutinen kenellekkään ?

"- Pravyi Sektori on vallannut öljynjalostamon Kirovohradissa epäillessään että se rahoittaa separatisteja"
Lisää Ukrainan valtion hajoitusta. Ei ainakaan edistä rauhan saamista alueelle ...

 

[Vonka]

- Venäjä on siirtänyt MiG-29 laivueen Millerovoon 30 m:n päähän Ukrainan rajasta (kaupankäynnin valmistelua tai petos ? )

Niitäkin kokeillaan vielä. Katsotaan tätä historiaa.

Hissukseen hivuttaa. Kissa hiipii kohti hiirtä ja tarkkailee sen reaktioita. Aina, kun hiiri säikähtää ja höristää korviaan, se pysähtyy ja kehrää vähän. Kun valo on keltaisella, nostaa kytkintä vähän. Krim opetti tämän, ja siellä ei ollut vastarintaa. Länsi neuvoton. Röyhkeys meni läpi nopeammin. Puheet: "Kunnioitamme Ukrainan suvereniteettia" ja "Ei ole aikomusta liittää Krimiä Venäjään" kuuluivat peliin samalla kun alueelle meni lisää rautaruokaa.

Huhtikuusta asti on tehty pala palalta tätä hommaa. Hallntorakennusten valtaus, poliisiasemien valtaus, Moskovassa hyppäävät hallintotoimijat (kuten Pushilin) ottavat virat. Strelkov ja muut GRU-taustaiset siirtyvät Krimiltä alueelle. Kapinalliset alkavat aseistaa kaupunkeja, käyttävät siviilejä suojanaan. Alkaa näkyä uudempia aseita, mutta rajan yli tulee pari pataljoonaa varttuneempia ex-sotilaita. Helikopterit ovat ATO-operaatiossa jopatehokkaana työkaluna. Yllättäen ilmestyy uudenaikaisia it-aseita kentälle. Raja aukeaa. Ilmestyy kuorma-autojen lisäksi tankkeja...

Muutaman koneen iskuun rajan yli tuskin reagoitaisiin sen kummemmin kuin tähän asti. Tankeilla jo kokeiltiin.

Ei siis hyökätä kunnon offensiivilla, jolloin länsi ei tunne olevansa selkä seinää vasten ja reagoi oikeasti, vaan asetetaan se kuin sammakko hitaasti kiehuvaan liemeen...

Jos sammakko laitetaan kuumaan kattilaan, se loikkaa. Mutta jos sen laittaa uimaan haaleaan veteen ja laittaa tulen alle, se tulee uneliaaksi ja raukeasksi eikä tajua hypätä veden kuumentuessa. Se keittyy siihen, kunnes on myöhäistä rypistää.

 

[Siipimies]

Sanktioilla uhataan Ukrainaa. Ei näy Venäjä oikein tykkäävän Ukrainan EU-assosiaatiosopimuksesta:

Russia Threatens Trade Barriers Against Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/502488.html

The Moscow Times: Russia to reduce Ukrainian defense imports 95 percent by 2015
http://t.co/GnUEuGFTZ9

Poroshenko sanoo että luonnos uudesta perustuslaista jossa valtaa siirretään alueille annetaan 26 pvä parlamentille:

Poroshenko: Draft changes to Ukrainian Constitution on decentralization of power will be submitted to Rada on June 26
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...l-be-submitted-to-rada-on-june-26-353313.html

 

[Arti]

Venäjällä varmaankin heitellään serpentiinejä ja riemuitaan aina, kun separatistit valtaavat Ukrainalaisia rakennuksia. Sellaisen pätemisen omaksuminen ylpeyden ja riemun lähteeksi ei kuitenkaan ole lainkaan tervettä toimintaa. Se on tuhoavaa anarkiaa, ja siitä riemuitseminen kannustaa näitä separatisteja valtaamaan yhä lisää rakennuksia. Venäläiset juhlivat heitä ymmärtämättä, että separatistit opettelevat tätä toimintakulttuuria ja voivat siirtää sen Venäjälle. Venäjä voi hyvinkin olla kouluttamassa Ukrainassa niitä ihmisiä jotka tuhoavat ja hajoittavat Venäjän federaation olemassaolon. Ei olisi nimittäin ensimmäinen kerta, kun terroristit kääntävät aseensa äskeisiä isäntiään vastaan.

 

[Siipimies]

Onkohan nyt niin että Ukrainalta ei löydy todellisia toimijoita kuin vain nuo kolme vapaa-ehtoispataljoonaa ?
-Donbass
-Azov
-Aidar
Ja suunnitteilla pataljoona Krim jota Semenchenko yrittää saada kasaan.

Todellisista toimijoista on vaikea sanoa, mutta Dmitry Tymchukin blogista saa jonkinlaisen kuvan määristä (kuinkahan viisasta näitä on julkistaa Ukrainassa ?):
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-...breaks-amid-unilateral-cease-fire-353296.html

"The Defense Ministry announced today that 62% of the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of the ATO were provided with armored vests. Except those vests that the Army already had, and the help of volunteers, 4,650 armored vests were purchased and delivered to the area of the ATO. By the end of June, this amount will be increased to 7,000 vests."

Helikopterit lentävät kovalla tappioprosentilla , ne käyvät kohta vähiin.

Helikoptereista oli aiemmin juttu jossa manittiin että 20 kpl on vuokrattu pitkällä sopimuksella kaupalliselle firmalle. Joku ACO:stä vaati että ne pitää saada takaisin
tositoimiin. Tuskin on saatu. Eli ovat todella vähissä, jos oikein ymmärrän.