Ukrainan konflikti/sota
setämies
Kenraali
Jatkuu iltavapaissa tämä jokaisen verenpainetta nostava keskustelu hesarin julkaisukäytännöistä. Tästä eteenpäin jatketaan ukrainan tilanteen kehittymistä.
http://maanpuolustus.net/threads/he...lehti-valita-linjansa.3602/page-2#post-135159
-setämies-
Edit: kirotusvire + linkki lisätty.
http://maanpuolustus.net/threads/he...lehti-valita-linjansa.3602/page-2#post-135159
-setämies-
Edit: kirotusvire + linkki lisätty.
Viimeksi muokattu:
sherlokki
Kapteeni
Kuuluuko Venäjä ja Ukraina tuon Haagin tuomioistuimen piiriin?
Minuteman
Eversti
Kyllä kuuluu.
Lainattu wikipediasta:
Kansainvälinen rikostuomioistuin (engl. International Criminal Court, ICC) tuomitsee henkilöitä, jotka ovat syyllistyneet vakaviin kansainvälisiin rikoksiin. Rikostuomioistuimella on toimivalta sotarikoksista, rikoksista ihmisyyttä vastaan ja joukkotuhonnasta. Tuomioistuimen toiminta alkoi vuonna 2002.
ICC ei ole YK:n alainen mutta toimii läheisessä yhteistyössä YK:n kanssa.[1] Se toimii Haagissa. Perustamissääntö sallii toiminnan muuallakin.
Kansainvälinen rikostuomioistuin perustettiin vuonna 1998 allekirjoitetulla perustamissopimuksella, Kansainvälisen rikostuomioistuimen Rooman perussäännöllä. Perussäännön allekirjoitti 120 valtiota 17. heinäkuuta 1998 Roomassa. Sopimuksen voimaantulon edellytyksenä oli, että vähintään 60 valtiota ratifioi sen. Tämä tapahtui 11. huhtikuuta 2002 kymmenen valtion tallettaessa samanaikaisesti ratifiointiasiakirjat YK:n päämajassa. ICC:n toiminta alkoi 1. heinäkuuta 2002. ICC on toimivaltainen tuomitsemaan rikoksista, jotka on tehty tämän päivän jälkeen, muttei aiemmin tehdyistä rikoksista; säännöllä ei ole taannehtivaa vaikutusta.
Rooman perussäännössä määriteltiin ne rikokset, joiden tuomitsemiseen sopimusvaltiot luovuttavat tuomioistuimelle toimivallan (sotarikos, rikos ihmisyyttä vastaan, joukkotuhonta), ja toimivallan jakautuminen ICC:n ja kansallisten tuomioistuinten välillä. Samalla määriteltiin ne yleiset periaatteet, joita ICC noudattaa, ja päätettiin ICC:n organisaatiosta. Sopimusvaltiot sopivat myös ICC:n toiminnan rahoituksesta.
Venäjä RTnews eivät anna periksi. Niiden mukaan asialla on ollut ukrainalainen hävittäjä. Ukraina puolestaan ilmoittaa, ettei yksikään sen hävittäjistä ollut tuolloin ilmassa. En tiedä kiinnostaako tämä enää ketään, mutta kyseessä on ilmeisesti Venäjän vakiopuolustus, emme me, vaan te!
Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow
Published time: July 21, 2014 12:59
Edited time: July 21, 2014 15:16
Get short URL
Image courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
8.6K2.6K47
Trends
“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.
At the moment of the MH17 crash an American satellite was flying over the area of eastern Ukraine, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry. It urged the US to publish the space photos and data captured by it.
‘Ukrainian Buk missile system transported to militia-held area’
In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.
“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a self-propelled vehicle and two launchers, according to the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.
Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see the self-propelled system, about 60 units of military and special equipment, he elaborated.
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.
Images taken on July 18 show that the missile systems left the area of the MH17 crash on July 17, the military official said.
Kartapolov also pointed to the fact that on the day of the plane crash Ukraine’s military increased the intensity of the radar stations of the Buk missile systems.
In response to Moscow’s evidence, Kiev said on Monday it had proof the missile that brought down a Malaysian airliner last week came from Russia.
"There is evidence that the missile which struck the plane was fired by terrorists, who received arms and specialists from the Russian Federation," spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council Andrey Lysenko told a news conference. "To disown this tragedy, [Russia] are drawing a lot of pictures and maps. We will explore any photos and other plans produced by the Russian side."
Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow
Published time: July 21, 2014 12:59
Edited time: July 21, 2014 15:16
Get short URL
Image courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
8.6K2.6K47
Trends
“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.
At the moment of the MH17 crash an American satellite was flying over the area of eastern Ukraine, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry. It urged the US to publish the space photos and data captured by it.
‘Ukrainian Buk missile system transported to militia-held area’
In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.
“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a self-propelled vehicle and two launchers, according to the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.
Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see the self-propelled system, about 60 units of military and special equipment, he elaborated.
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.
Images taken on July 18 show that the missile systems left the area of the MH17 crash on July 17, the military official said.
Kartapolov also pointed to the fact that on the day of the plane crash Ukraine’s military increased the intensity of the radar stations of the Buk missile systems.
In response to Moscow’s evidence, Kiev said on Monday it had proof the missile that brought down a Malaysian airliner last week came from Russia.
"There is evidence that the missile which struck the plane was fired by terrorists, who received arms and specialists from the Russian Federation," spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council Andrey Lysenko told a news conference. "To disown this tragedy, [Russia] are drawing a lot of pictures and maps. We will explore any photos and other plans produced by the Russian side."
sherlokki
Kapteeni
Tästä ei selviä että ovatko sopimusvaltioita, mutta ilmeisesti ovat, minä en näitä tunne.
Putinilla kaksi huonoa vaihtoehtoa tai takataskussaan yllätys!
Why Putin Can't Afford to Dump the Ukrainian Separatists
Maxim Zmeyev / ReutersAn armed pro-Russian separatist gestures to reporters at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, near the village of Grabovo, Donetsk region.
While Russia's support of Ukrainian separatists has led to its worst standoff with the West in post-Soviet history, the Kremlin cannot afford to disown them because that would spell a major geopolitical defeat and alienate the jingoistic masses at home, Russian pundits said.
The rebels are Moscow's last remaining leverage in the otherwise vehemently pro-Western Ukraine, Maria Lipman of the Carnegie Moscow Center think tank said Monday.
And domestically, the Russian public has been persuaded to see the insurgents as the good guys resisting "forces of evil" — which means disowning them would destroy Putin's popularity, Lipman said.
This leaves Putin without any appealing options, though he may yet whip out a surprise and come out on top, as he has been known to do, experts said.
"The Kremlin has been reduced to choosing between bad and worse," said independent analyst Sergei Shelin.
"But it only has itself to blame," he said.
'The Boeing Crisis'
The months-long conflict over Ukraine intensified last week when a Malaysian passenger jet was shot down over a separatist-controlled area, leaving 298 dead, most of them European citizens.
U.S. officials have accused the allegedly Moscow-backed secessionists, who are campaigning to join Russia, of being behind the incident.
Those accusations have been echoed and amplified by Western media and the government in Kiev, who have dismissed attempts by the rebels and official Moscow to blame the incident on the Ukrainian anti-insurgency forces.
In an apparent effort to defuse the "Boeing Crisis," Putin aired a live public appeal on the issue — timed, unprecedentedly, for Sunday evening primetime in the U.S.
But he refused to side with the West and blame the rebels, limiting his speech to well-meaning generalities and vague accusations against Kiev.
Keeping NATO Out
Putin's strategic goal is to keep Ukraine from affiliating with the EU and, even more importantly, NATO, said Alexei Makarkin of the Center for Political Technologies, a for-profit think tank in Moscow.
The "Great Game" for Ukraine between Russia and the West has lasted for at least a decade, kicking off with the Orange Revolution of 2004, which prevented a pro-Russian presidential nominee from coming to power in Kiev.
Russia lost most of its political influence in Ukraine with the second revolution, which ousted the pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in February, said Makarkin.
Now the only option Moscow has left is rendering Ukraine too unstable for NATO to align with, and a simmering insurgency is just the thing to do the trick, the analyst said.
However, the plan to maintain a festering low-profile conflict in eastern Ukraine became unfeasible with the Malaysian jet's downing, which requires the Kremlin to act, said Shelin.
Fighting the 'Forces of Evil'
So far, the Ukrainian crisis has been a major ratings booster for Putin, whose public approval soared to 86 percent last month following Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's pro-Russian province of Crimea in March.
The only time Russians loved Putin more was in 2008, when his approval rating hit an all-time record of 88 percent following a brief successful war against Georgia, another pro-Western former Soviet neighbor.
Most Russians see Ukrainian separatists as heroes resisting the quasi-fascist "junta" in Kiev, a view hammered home by relentless propaganda on Russian state television, said Lipman of the Carnegie Moscow Center.
The anti-Ukrainian sentiment is also apparently shared by part of the Russian ruling establishment, especially in the army and security forces, though they do not voice it publicly, all experts polled for this story agreed.
Putin has reaped the benefits of the ongoing jingoistic, anti-Ukrainian frenzy at home, Lipman said.
But this also means the Kremlin would negate all popularity gains if it pulls off an ideological U-turn and denounces the rebels, pundits said in unison.
"Given the current economic trouble, if the Russian public thinks we were defeated in Ukraine, the approval ratings are likely to plummet," Makarkin said.
Russia is undergoing an economic slowdown in recent years that even Putin has attributed to state mismanagement. The country has been teetering on the brink of recession for months.
Emboldening the Opposition
Giving up on the insurgency could also energize domestic political opposition in Russia, experts said.
Russia saw sweeping anti-Putin protests from 2011 to 2013, largely liberal and pro-Western in sentiment and therefore not dissimilar to Ukraine's two recent revolutions.
The annexation of Crimea was, among other things, a message to liberal protesters that such revolutions do not end well, said Lipman.
Both she and Shelin, the independent analyst, admitted that the liberal wing of the Russian opposition has been largely crippled by a government crackdown.
But another danger are the nationalists, especially the radical volunteers who are infiltrating Ukraine in droves to fight for the separatists, and who will be outraged if Putin explicitly denies them support, experts said.
"If they go in one direction, they can go in another," Lipman said. "And these people are ready to shoot."
No Good Solution
The problem for the Kremlin is that acting on domestic public expectations is likely to bring about a severe international backlash, said Shelin.
Though direct Russian involvement in the downing of the Malaysia Airlines plane has not been proven, the incident has already been compared to the 1988 bombing of a U.S. passenger jet over Lockerbie in Scotland staged by the Libyan government. The incident ruined the global image of Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi and triggered economic sanctions that trimmed Libya's GDP by a quarter over a decade.
Western countries have already imposed sanctions against selected Russian companies and officials, and are considering expanding them to entire sectors of the economy. Public humiliation is also possible — U.S. and Ukrainian media are already calling for Russia to be stripped of the 2018 World Cup — and the bruises to Russia's global image could take years to fade.
There appears to be no solution that would simultaneously end the hostilities in Ukraine, appease the Russian public and allow Putin to save face, Makarkin said.
The two current options — giving up on the rebels or antagonizing the West — are both "catastrophic" for the Kremlin, Lipman said.
"Putin needs a totally unexpected maneuver to get out of this one," she said. "He has pulled it off before, but the situation has never been as tight as now."
Why Putin Can't Afford to Dump the Ukrainian Separatists
- By Alexey Eremenko
- Jul. 21 2014 19:21
- Last edited 19:22
Maxim Zmeyev / ReutersAn armed pro-Russian separatist gestures to reporters at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, near the village of Grabovo, Donetsk region.
While Russia's support of Ukrainian separatists has led to its worst standoff with the West in post-Soviet history, the Kremlin cannot afford to disown them because that would spell a major geopolitical defeat and alienate the jingoistic masses at home, Russian pundits said.
The rebels are Moscow's last remaining leverage in the otherwise vehemently pro-Western Ukraine, Maria Lipman of the Carnegie Moscow Center think tank said Monday.
And domestically, the Russian public has been persuaded to see the insurgents as the good guys resisting "forces of evil" — which means disowning them would destroy Putin's popularity, Lipman said.
This leaves Putin without any appealing options, though he may yet whip out a surprise and come out on top, as he has been known to do, experts said.
"The Kremlin has been reduced to choosing between bad and worse," said independent analyst Sergei Shelin.
"But it only has itself to blame," he said.
'The Boeing Crisis'
The months-long conflict over Ukraine intensified last week when a Malaysian passenger jet was shot down over a separatist-controlled area, leaving 298 dead, most of them European citizens.
U.S. officials have accused the allegedly Moscow-backed secessionists, who are campaigning to join Russia, of being behind the incident.
Those accusations have been echoed and amplified by Western media and the government in Kiev, who have dismissed attempts by the rebels and official Moscow to blame the incident on the Ukrainian anti-insurgency forces.
In an apparent effort to defuse the "Boeing Crisis," Putin aired a live public appeal on the issue — timed, unprecedentedly, for Sunday evening primetime in the U.S.
But he refused to side with the West and blame the rebels, limiting his speech to well-meaning generalities and vague accusations against Kiev.
Keeping NATO Out
Putin's strategic goal is to keep Ukraine from affiliating with the EU and, even more importantly, NATO, said Alexei Makarkin of the Center for Political Technologies, a for-profit think tank in Moscow.
The "Great Game" for Ukraine between Russia and the West has lasted for at least a decade, kicking off with the Orange Revolution of 2004, which prevented a pro-Russian presidential nominee from coming to power in Kiev.
Russia lost most of its political influence in Ukraine with the second revolution, which ousted the pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych in February, said Makarkin.
Now the only option Moscow has left is rendering Ukraine too unstable for NATO to align with, and a simmering insurgency is just the thing to do the trick, the analyst said.
However, the plan to maintain a festering low-profile conflict in eastern Ukraine became unfeasible with the Malaysian jet's downing, which requires the Kremlin to act, said Shelin.
Fighting the 'Forces of Evil'
So far, the Ukrainian crisis has been a major ratings booster for Putin, whose public approval soared to 86 percent last month following Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's pro-Russian province of Crimea in March.
The only time Russians loved Putin more was in 2008, when his approval rating hit an all-time record of 88 percent following a brief successful war against Georgia, another pro-Western former Soviet neighbor.
Most Russians see Ukrainian separatists as heroes resisting the quasi-fascist "junta" in Kiev, a view hammered home by relentless propaganda on Russian state television, said Lipman of the Carnegie Moscow Center.
The anti-Ukrainian sentiment is also apparently shared by part of the Russian ruling establishment, especially in the army and security forces, though they do not voice it publicly, all experts polled for this story agreed.
Putin has reaped the benefits of the ongoing jingoistic, anti-Ukrainian frenzy at home, Lipman said.
But this also means the Kremlin would negate all popularity gains if it pulls off an ideological U-turn and denounces the rebels, pundits said in unison.
"Given the current economic trouble, if the Russian public thinks we were defeated in Ukraine, the approval ratings are likely to plummet," Makarkin said.
Russia is undergoing an economic slowdown in recent years that even Putin has attributed to state mismanagement. The country has been teetering on the brink of recession for months.
Emboldening the Opposition
Giving up on the insurgency could also energize domestic political opposition in Russia, experts said.
Russia saw sweeping anti-Putin protests from 2011 to 2013, largely liberal and pro-Western in sentiment and therefore not dissimilar to Ukraine's two recent revolutions.
The annexation of Crimea was, among other things, a message to liberal protesters that such revolutions do not end well, said Lipman.
Both she and Shelin, the independent analyst, admitted that the liberal wing of the Russian opposition has been largely crippled by a government crackdown.
But another danger are the nationalists, especially the radical volunteers who are infiltrating Ukraine in droves to fight for the separatists, and who will be outraged if Putin explicitly denies them support, experts said.
"If they go in one direction, they can go in another," Lipman said. "And these people are ready to shoot."
No Good Solution
The problem for the Kremlin is that acting on domestic public expectations is likely to bring about a severe international backlash, said Shelin.
Though direct Russian involvement in the downing of the Malaysia Airlines plane has not been proven, the incident has already been compared to the 1988 bombing of a U.S. passenger jet over Lockerbie in Scotland staged by the Libyan government. The incident ruined the global image of Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi and triggered economic sanctions that trimmed Libya's GDP by a quarter over a decade.
Western countries have already imposed sanctions against selected Russian companies and officials, and are considering expanding them to entire sectors of the economy. Public humiliation is also possible — U.S. and Ukrainian media are already calling for Russia to be stripped of the 2018 World Cup — and the bruises to Russia's global image could take years to fade.
There appears to be no solution that would simultaneously end the hostilities in Ukraine, appease the Russian public and allow Putin to save face, Makarkin said.
The two current options — giving up on the rebels or antagonizing the West — are both "catastrophic" for the Kremlin, Lipman said.
"Putin needs a totally unexpected maneuver to get out of this one," she said. "He has pulled it off before, but the situation has never been as tight as now."
ransu
Kersantti
Liitteet
Recon4Life
Kapteeni
Venäjä RTnews eivät anna periksi. Niiden mukaan asialla on ollut ukrainalainen hävittäjä. Ukraina puolestaan ilmoittaa, ettei yksikään sen hävittäjistä ollut tuolloin ilmassa. En tiedä kiinnostaako tämä enää ketään, mutta kyseessä on ilmeisesti Venäjän vakiopuolustus, emme me, vaan te!
Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow
Published time: July 21, 2014 12:59
Edited time: July 21, 2014 15:16
Get short URL
Image courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
8.6K2.6K47
Trends
“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.
At the moment of the MH17 crash an American satellite was flying over the area of eastern Ukraine, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry. It urged the US to publish the space photos and data captured by it.
‘Ukrainian Buk missile system transported to militia-held area’
In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.
“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a self-propelled vehicle and two launchers, according to the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.
Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see the self-propelled system, about 60 units of military and special equipment, he elaborated.
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.
Images taken on July 18 show that the missile systems left the area of the MH17 crash on July 17, the military official said.
Kartapolov also pointed to the fact that on the day of the plane crash Ukraine’s military increased the intensity of the radar stations of the Buk missile systems.
In response to Moscow’s evidence, Kiev said on Monday it had proof the missile that brought down a Malaysian airliner last week came from Russia.
"There is evidence that the missile which struck the plane was fired by terrorists, who received arms and specialists from the Russian Federation," spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council Andrey Lysenko told a news conference. "To disown this tragedy, [Russia] are drawing a lot of pictures and maps. We will explore any photos and other plans produced by the Russian side."
Väistämättä tulee mieleen, että Venäjä haluaa saada aikaiseksi vain mahdollisimman paljon epäilijöitä tälle tapahtumalle Euroopassa. Mitä enemmän epäilijöitä, sen vähemmän tukea pakotteille, jotka taitavat alkaa jo kuumottaa naapurin johtoa.
Edelleenkin tätä on mahdoton kääntää ympäri, koska terroristit ilmoittivat pudottaneensa koneen, joka myöhemmin osoittautui malesialaiskoneeksi.
sirppimestari
Kersantti
Mmmh, venäjä miinoittaa Ukrainan aluevesiä ...
http://inforesist.org/en/russia-began-to-mine-gas-installations-in-the-azov-sea/
Miten se oli merisaarto on sotatoimi ?
Ja sitten kun tuolla oli linkkiä niistä vanhoista t-64 ja bmd vaunuista Rostovin alueelle niin voidaan vetää johtopäätöstä että venäjä rakentaa uutta rintamalinjaa Maripoulin suuntaan. Tai sitten ei.
http://inforesist.org/en/russia-began-to-mine-gas-installations-in-the-azov-sea/
Miten se oli merisaarto on sotatoimi ?
Ja sitten kun tuolla oli linkkiä niistä vanhoista t-64 ja bmd vaunuista Rostovin alueelle niin voidaan vetää johtopäätöstä että venäjä rakentaa uutta rintamalinjaa Maripoulin suuntaan. Tai sitten ei.
sherlokki
Kapteeni
Eikös Venäjällä ole tarkoitus kolminkertaistaa joukot tuolla ja perustaa niemimaalle mafioosoille casino. Hyvässä suojeluksessa nämä tämän päivän Al Caponet.
Lepukki
Eversti
Miten niin tyhjiä? Siinä on vain pari uusimmalla häiveteknologialla varustettua T-100:sta
Recon4Life
Kapteeni
Pikanttina yksityiskohtana täytyy mainita, että joku/jotkut yrittävä muokata vimmaisesti SU-25 wikipedi-artikkeliin lakikorkeutta 10 000 metriin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sukhoi_Su-25&diff=next&oldid=617868526
Muokkaajan tiedot.
CNCGroup Hostmaster
No.156,Fu-Xing-Men-Nei Street,
Beijing,100031,P.R.China
Telephone: 861082993155
Fax: 861082993102
Kiinalaiset ovat jostain syystä kiinnostuneet SU-25:n tiedoista...
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sukhoi_Su-25&diff=next&oldid=617868526
Muokkaajan tiedot.
CNCGroup Hostmaster
No.156,Fu-Xing-Men-Nei Street,
Beijing,100031,P.R.China
Telephone: 861082993155
Fax: 861082993102
Kiinalaiset ovat jostain syystä kiinnostuneet SU-25:n tiedoista...
ransu
Kersantti
No eihän se sovi että toveri Venäjän hallitus valehtelee päin tunnettuja faktoja - sehän voisi tarkoittaa että Kiinankin hallitus voi valehdella...
Jos ei lausunnot vastaa faktoja - niin muutetaan faktoja vastaamaan lausuntoja !!
D
Deleted member 1079
Guest
Mun mielestä koko Ukrainan historiaa oli muokkailtu tänään rus wikissä.
Voi kai sanoa ettei venäläisllä ole aikomustakaan myöntää koneen ampumista separistien tekosiksi.
Mielestäni on erittäin epäkunnioittavaa väittää, että naapurivaltiomme päämies voisi syyllistyä muunnellun totuuden puhumiseen, joten pois se meistä
!http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/a1393904587277
Uutiset Ulkomaat
Putin: Krimillä ei ole Venäjän sotilaita
4.3.2014 12:58 Päivitetty 4.3.2014 13:52 120
REUTERS–HS
Aleksei Nikolski / Venäjän presidentinkanslia
Venäjän presidentti Vladimir Putin tiedotustilaisuudessa maaseutuasunnollaan Novo-Ogarjovassa Moskovan ulkopuolella tiistaina.
Minuteman
Eversti
Ukraina allekirjoitti Rooman perussäännön 20.01.2000, Venäjä 13.09.2000.