Slammer
Kenraali
Höpö höpö, Suomi ei saisi todennäköisesti amerikkalaisia vaikka pyytäisi. Suurimmassa osassa Nato-maista ei ole amerikkalaisia joukkoja eikä yhdessäkään uusista jäsenmaista.
Ukrainan konflikti/sota
Höpö höpö, Suomi ei saisi todennäköisesti amerikkalaisia vaikka pyytäisi. Suurimmassa osassa Nato-maista ei ole amerikkalaisia joukkoja eikä yhdessäkään uusista jäsenmaista.
Karvajalka
Luutnantti
liveuamap.com sivustossa on ollut jotain hämminkiä eilen ja tänään. Jotkin linkit eivät toimi ja Seppojen hallinoiman alueen raja siirtyilee melko paljon edestakaisin. Tapahtumiin liitettyjä kellonaikoja vertaillessa huomaa että kaikki ei toimi ihan niinkuin pitää.
Minuteman
Eversti
Mihin tämä väite perustuu? Miksi Suomeen tulisi amerikkalaisia joukkoja?
skärdis
Greatest Leader
Vai näyttelee NATO aktiivisesti aseitaan. Siinä on kuitenkin vissi ero siihen, että Venäjä käyttelee aseitaan rajanaapureitaan kohtaan.
Eikö se ole juurikin Venäjä, joka on ilmoittanut vahvistavansa Suomenkin rajalla olevia joukkoja?
Shakki on herrasmiesten laji, jossa säännöistä välittämätön pelaaja joutuu armotta pois pelilaudalta. Putin ei ole osoittanut minkäänlaisia shakkimestarin otteita.
Ei hyvältä näytä, vai mitä mieltä herrat ovat Venäjän viimeisimmistä ulostuloista:
- Lännen silmien olisi avauduttava näkemään, miten Ukraina pettää, valehtelee ja vääristelee todisteita. Ukrainan sotapolitiikkaa ei pitäisi tukea, "net tappaa siviilejä".
- Ukrainan ilmavoimien kone ampui alas Malesialaisen koneen jne. jne.
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/22/russia-its-decision-time-for-everybody/?hpt=hp_c1
Russia: It’s decision time ‘for everybody’
July 22nd, 2014
03:05 PM ET
By Mick Krever, CNN
The downing of MH17 was indeed a "game-changer" as many Western leaders have called it, Vladimir Chizhov, Russian ambassador to the EU, told CNN's Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday.
"I agree it's a game-changer," he said. "It should serve as a wake-up call for everybody to stop instigating violence, stop supporting the Ukrainian government in its military campaign against civilians."
In the past 24 hours, Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken tentative steps to quell the mounting public outrage over the botched recovery and investigation of the MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine.
Nonetheless, Putin has said that in fact Ukraine is at least indirectly to blame for the downing of the civilian airplane, because, he alleges, of its continuing offensive against pro-Russian separatists.
"I think it's a time of decision for everybody, including those Western countries that have been supporting Ukraine," Chizhov said.
"If we talk about influence, I think influence on the Kiev government side from the West should really increase. As far as Russia's influence on the people in eastern Ukraine, you can easily see that from public statements made by President Putin over the last few days."
Putin today promised to use his sway on the separatists.
"I can assure that it is in the national interests of Russia to see this conflict end as soon as possible," Chizhov said. "And we never thought it would serve any interest to prolong it or exacerbate it."
Meanwhile, the ambassador said that no one had produced any convincing evidence that pro-Russian rebels, or indeed Russia, had a role in the attack.
Ukraine, he said, has concentrated on "producing fake evidence."
"In the meantime, the United States government has said that it has mounting evidence pointing to what they - to those whom they call rebels or separatists, but have yet to produce any piece, any tangible piece of evidence."
Meanwhile, Russian Army Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov suggested a Ukrainian jet fighter might have shot the plane down.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko rejected that in an exclusive interview with Amanpour, saying that all Ukrainian aircraft were on the ground at the time.
"The Russian Defense Ministry did not blame actually anybody. But it produced hard evidence showing that some questions need to be answered by the Ukrainian authorities, which they have failed to do so far."
"So in the lack of any other evidence which would point to the contrary, I think the strongest evidence so far is the one produced by the Russian minister of defense."
- Lännen silmien olisi avauduttava näkemään, miten Ukraina pettää, valehtelee ja vääristelee todisteita. Ukrainan sotapolitiikkaa ei pitäisi tukea, "net tappaa siviilejä".
- Ukrainan ilmavoimien kone ampui alas Malesialaisen koneen jne. jne.
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/22/russia-its-decision-time-for-everybody/?hpt=hp_c1
Russia: It’s decision time ‘for everybody’
July 22nd, 2014
03:05 PM ET
By Mick Krever, CNN
The downing of MH17 was indeed a "game-changer" as many Western leaders have called it, Vladimir Chizhov, Russian ambassador to the EU, told CNN's Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday.
"I agree it's a game-changer," he said. "It should serve as a wake-up call for everybody to stop instigating violence, stop supporting the Ukrainian government in its military campaign against civilians."
In the past 24 hours, Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken tentative steps to quell the mounting public outrage over the botched recovery and investigation of the MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine.
Nonetheless, Putin has said that in fact Ukraine is at least indirectly to blame for the downing of the civilian airplane, because, he alleges, of its continuing offensive against pro-Russian separatists.
"I think it's a time of decision for everybody, including those Western countries that have been supporting Ukraine," Chizhov said.
"If we talk about influence, I think influence on the Kiev government side from the West should really increase. As far as Russia's influence on the people in eastern Ukraine, you can easily see that from public statements made by President Putin over the last few days."
Putin today promised to use his sway on the separatists.
"I can assure that it is in the national interests of Russia to see this conflict end as soon as possible," Chizhov said. "And we never thought it would serve any interest to prolong it or exacerbate it."
Meanwhile, the ambassador said that no one had produced any convincing evidence that pro-Russian rebels, or indeed Russia, had a role in the attack.
Ukraine, he said, has concentrated on "producing fake evidence."
"In the meantime, the United States government has said that it has mounting evidence pointing to what they - to those whom they call rebels or separatists, but have yet to produce any piece, any tangible piece of evidence."
Meanwhile, Russian Army Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov suggested a Ukrainian jet fighter might have shot the plane down.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko rejected that in an exclusive interview with Amanpour, saying that all Ukrainian aircraft were on the ground at the time.
"The Russian Defense Ministry did not blame actually anybody. But it produced hard evidence showing that some questions need to be answered by the Ukrainian authorities, which they have failed to do so far."
"So in the lack of any other evidence which would point to the contrary, I think the strongest evidence so far is the one produced by the Russian minister of defense."
krd
Ylipäällikkö
Ja tosiaan käyttelee omalta puoleltakin:
http://liveuamap.com/e/2014/22-of-j...l=48.06890293081591;39.804840087890945&zoom=8
Vonka
Supreme Leader
On tietenkin vaivattomampaa tunnistaa vaikka yksittäinen tienristeys, jos on käynyt itse henkilökohtaisesti paikalla. Mieti, että näkisit kotipitäjäsi tai -kaupunkisi kulmia kahdessa eri pätkässä, ehkä eri kulmastakin kuvattuna, eri vehkeellä ja valaistuksessa mutta sinulle tutusta paikasta rakennuksineen päivineen.
Ehdotus toimittajien tekemästä sijainnin validoinnista on hyvä, mutta propagandapursketta riittäisi vahvistettavaksi. Mikä olisi päivän keissi? En myöskään usko, että heitä kaivattiin ohjuspatteria kuvaamaan. Sen sijaan itäukrainalaisten kuvauskuri kamerakännyköillä on todella heikko: he napsivat koko ajan pieniä rainoja. Ukrainan sisäministeriöllä on selvästi omat "toimittajansa" raja-alueella ja ylikin. Tieto kolonnista tulee reaaliajassa ja kuvat myös.
Toki paikat ehtisi vieläkin kuvaamaan vaikka ristiin - jos pääsee sen tekemään. Mutta jo koneen tutkiminen on ollut vaikeaa.
sherlokki
Kapteeni
Quick update on military situation in East-Ukraine July 22nd
MilitaryMaps is a Russian Propaganda facebook application that tries to keeps track of Ukrainian units and only gives very limited information about Russian units. Yet their maps are sometimes useful.
This is the main layout at the moment:
Red line = Russian border
Blue line = approximate front line
Blue circle = Lugansk airport in Ukrainian control
Explosion icon = crash site MH17
Ukraine has been trying to close the border with Russia, because Russia was bringing in massive amounts of armor, weapons and soldiers. See for instance this blog.
This has only partly been succesful. In the most Eastern border crossing near Izvarino, the Ukrainians had not been able to close the gap.
The yellow line in the next map is the supply line through which all the reinforcements entered Ukraine from Russian territory:
The two red arrows show that Ukraine is making a big move now to cut of this line supply line that runs towards the city of Donetsk (far South-West).
In the Northern part it looks like this:
The yellow dotted line shows the previous frontline and thus the area that has been freed now. Even though the cities are heavily damaged, the people can now rebuild them and restore there lives in freedom and without fighting.
The dotted blue line is still in Russian terrorist control, but impossible for them to keep and soon Ukraine will free those areas as well. It is a matter of days.
Now that their main supply line is cut off, the Russians try to keep open another one:
Dotted yellow line = current supply line
The middle red arrow shows how they try to cut of the Ukrainian forces that patrol the border and how they defend their current supply line.
The red arrow in the East shows how Russia tries to push back the Ukrainian units that tried to close the border.
The smaller red arrows show how the Russian army attacks Ukraine from Russian territory (yes they do this! See this blog.)
Meanwhile the Russian commanders instruct (some of) their units to shell civilian areas with mortar and GRAD rockets to cause a lot of civilian casualties. They do this so the civilian population will not dare to rise against them, to blame this destrcution on Ukraine and to have an ongoing flow of horrible images that they can show on Russian tv to justify what they are doing and to recruit volunteers to fight and die in Ukraine. See this blog.
Please support Ukraine to keep (the) Russia(n terrorists) out of their land.
MilitaryMaps is a Russian Propaganda facebook application that tries to keeps track of Ukrainian units and only gives very limited information about Russian units. Yet their maps are sometimes useful.
This is the main layout at the moment:
Red line = Russian border
Blue line = approximate front line
Blue circle = Lugansk airport in Ukrainian control
Explosion icon = crash site MH17
Ukraine has been trying to close the border with Russia, because Russia was bringing in massive amounts of armor, weapons and soldiers. See for instance this blog.
This has only partly been succesful. In the most Eastern border crossing near Izvarino, the Ukrainians had not been able to close the gap.
The yellow line in the next map is the supply line through which all the reinforcements entered Ukraine from Russian territory:
The two red arrows show that Ukraine is making a big move now to cut of this line supply line that runs towards the city of Donetsk (far South-West).
In the Northern part it looks like this:
The yellow dotted line shows the previous frontline and thus the area that has been freed now. Even though the cities are heavily damaged, the people can now rebuild them and restore there lives in freedom and without fighting.
The dotted blue line is still in Russian terrorist control, but impossible for them to keep and soon Ukraine will free those areas as well. It is a matter of days.
Now that their main supply line is cut off, the Russians try to keep open another one:
Dotted yellow line = current supply line
The middle red arrow shows how they try to cut of the Ukrainian forces that patrol the border and how they defend their current supply line.
The red arrow in the East shows how Russia tries to push back the Ukrainian units that tried to close the border.
The smaller red arrows show how the Russian army attacks Ukraine from Russian territory (yes they do this! See this blog.)
Meanwhile the Russian commanders instruct (some of) their units to shell civilian areas with mortar and GRAD rockets to cause a lot of civilian casualties. They do this so the civilian population will not dare to rise against them, to blame this destrcution on Ukraine and to have an ongoing flow of horrible images that they can show on Russian tv to justify what they are doing and to recruit volunteers to fight and die in Ukraine. See this blog.
Please support Ukraine to keep (the) Russia(n terrorists) out of their land.
krd
Ylipäällikkö
Lausunto alasampumisesta:
"talialaistoimittajan kanssa keskustellut kapinallinen kertoi viime viikon tapahtumista. Toimittajan mukaan ukrainalaismiehen kertomus on "viattomuudessaan ja yksinkertaisuudessaan merkittävä".
– Torstai-iltapäivänä komentajamme käskivät meidät kuorma-autoihin. Meidän piti ottaa mukaan aseemme ja runsaasti ammuksia. Ehkä noin kymmentä minuttia aiemmin olimme kuulleet taivaalta valtavan räjähdyksen. Komentajamme sanoivat meille, että 'Olemme juuri ampuneet alas yhden kiovalaisten fasistien lentokoneen'."
http://yle.fi/uutiset/separatisti_italialaislehdelle_ammuimme_alas_malesialaiskoneen/7370682
"talialaistoimittajan kanssa keskustellut kapinallinen kertoi viime viikon tapahtumista. Toimittajan mukaan ukrainalaismiehen kertomus on "viattomuudessaan ja yksinkertaisuudessaan merkittävä".
– Torstai-iltapäivänä komentajamme käskivät meidät kuorma-autoihin. Meidän piti ottaa mukaan aseemme ja runsaasti ammuksia. Ehkä noin kymmentä minuttia aiemmin olimme kuulleet taivaalta valtavan räjähdyksen. Komentajamme sanoivat meille, että 'Olemme juuri ampuneet alas yhden kiovalaisten fasistien lentokoneen'."
http://yle.fi/uutiset/separatisti_italialaislehdelle_ammuimme_alas_malesialaiskoneen/7370682
aj77
Greatest Leader
Ei ole ei Putinissa shakkimestarin ainesta. Koko tilanne on syntynyt kun kaveri ajoi itsensä pattitilanteeseen vuosien saatossa valehtelemalla,huijaamalla ja antamalla katteettomia lupauksia. Nyt valehtelu on lähtenyt hanskasta. Kuten tänään aamutv kertoi. Media pitää valtionjohtoa ansassa tällä propagandalla mitä syöttää.
Shakkimestarin rooli voisi tulla kuitenkin siittä että Venäjän johto jotenkin löytää tien ulos tästä vaikka koko suuren maan media toitottaa täyttä roskaa. Tuntuu että venäjän media on sotatilassa.
krd
Ylipäällikkö
Suomen kuvalehdessa Putinin reaktiotavoista:
"Monessa liemessä keitettyjen salaisen palvelun agenttien tapaan entinen KGB-mies Putin on sitä paitsi osannut aina reagoida tilanteisiin nopeasti, vaikkei ole niittänyt mainetta suurena poliittisena ajattelijana.
”Hänellä on ollut kykyä ohjata tilanteita ja vastata haasteisiin kun niitä nousee”, Aaltola sanoo.
”Mutta nyt onnetar heitti kyllä aikamoisen kierrepallon.”"
http://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/ulk...i-on-ylitse-muiden/?shared=47263-827cb05e-500
krd
Ylipäällikkö
Koska separatistit on niin alakynnessä, on heitä autettava? Ja samalla nostettava omaa osallistumisastetta, kuitenkin samalla säilyttäen "emme puutu maan sisäisiin asioihin vaan autamme vain hätää kärsiviä" -mantra? Näin ainakin tulkitsen tuota toimintaa tässä vaiheessa. Se myös avaa mahdollisuuden liikkeeseen alueella. Tässä avoin kysymys on, että miten YK-mandaatti tälle olisi haettavissa? En usko sen olevan helppoa.
Väiteet venäläisten tulituksesta rajan yli ovat toistuvia. Samoin joukkojen kasvattamisesta rajalla ja materiaalin tuomisesta Ukrainaan. Mitä tapahtuisi jos Ukraina vastaisi tulitukseen (siis, jos väitteet pitävät paikkansa)?
Dmitry Tymchuk's military blog: On the border, Ukrainian army waging war on two fronts
Print version
July 23, 2014, 9:25 a.m. | Op-ed — by Dmitry Tymchuk
A pro-Russian separatist, with a kitten on his chest, stands at a checkpoint in the northern outskirts of city of Donetsk, on July 22, 2014.
© AFP
Dmitry Tymchuk
Editor's Note: To counter Russian propaganda lies about the Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine's Crimean peninsula on Feb. 27, Dmitry Tymchuk has set up the Center of Military and Political Research in Kyiv. He served in the Army air defense from 1995-1998, the National Guard from 1998-2000 and in the Defense Ministry in subsequent years on missions to Iraq, Lebanon and Kosovo. His blogs are translated into English by Voices of Ukraine. The Kyiv Post has not independently verified his findings, but will correct any misinformation brought to our attention at [email protected] or 38-044-591-3344 or any of our contacts at www.kyivpost.com/contacts.
Brothers and sisters!
Here's the Summary for July 22, 2014
The bad news:
1. Behind every report about another settlement being liberated by ATO forces lie great efforts, hard work, and the most dreadful, the blood of our boys. The insurgents keep resisting like crazed and cornered rats.
The situation in the border areas is very difficult. Here, as we know, our [soldiers] are waging war on two fronts-against terrorists and Russian mercenaries, and against Russian troops-constantly drawing fire from the territory of the Russian Federation. More precisely, [Ukrainians] cannot respond to the fire so as not to give Putin a reason to accuse Ukraine of aggression and then start an open invasion.
I won’t argue whether it’s right or not–not to respond to the fire from Putin’s scumbags, who shoot in the old NKVD-style, in the back, while feeling their total impunity. But I know that none of our boys who are heroically holding the defense there, will ever again call Putin’s Russia a “friend.” As with any of us, who have retained our ability to think and feel.
2. Russia continues to drag its troops to the border with Ukraine.
Moscow redeploys its personnel, weapons and equipment already from the Trans-Baikal and Far East military districts. It’s quite possible that some of these fighters will be running around Donbas tomorrow. Along with tanks and Grads.
The Kremlin is ready to unleash its military might on Ukraine. But the July 2014 edition of the Ukrainian army is far from what we had back in March. Putin and his hordes can now only impress the mummy of Grandpa Lenin in his Mausoleum [on Red Square in Moscow], but not the nation which is breaking the Moscow hyena’s spine in Donbas today.
3. The EU for the umpteenth time has postponed the introduction of new sanctions against Russia. That is, for now, Europeans will only work up “instructions on the elaboration of possible further sanctions against Russia.” At the same time, France announced that despite everything, it would deliver “Mistrals” to Putin.
In Ukraine, there are disputes saying, so what is wrong with the fact that the French “Mistrals” will end up in Russia? The answer is obvious. Yes, it will not directly affect the course of events in Donbas. But it is a powerful political act, which is negative both for us, and for Europe. It means that not all European rulers realize the extent of the threat, since they are ready to hand over serious offensive weapons to the Kremlin.
And it is especially strange to observe such steps from the French, who just 70 years ago used to scrub the occupiers’ toilets for a piece of strudel. How quickly are the history lessons forgotten, which teach [people] to be more careful about spitting upon their own safety.
Fortunately, those who are like [François] Hollande are singularities in Europe. The EU has finally begun to realize with whom they are dealing.
The good news:
1. ATO forces freed Severodonetsk and Popasnaya [Luhansk Oblast].
Comments are not needed here. Every Ukrainian flag waving over a Ukrainian city or village instead of a Russian, or “not-quite-Russian” (as in “DNR” and “LNR” [Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics]), flag is a triumph of justice.
2. Putin began to moan today, saying that Russia must “fully and expediently implement measures to enhance its defense capability due to increased NATO troops near the border.”
This butcher continues to scare his Russian flock with threats from the outside. As in, there is no direct threat, but we must fear and prepare [our] response (overall, one can only wonder about Putin’s verbiage–if there is no threat, what is there to respond to then?). Although today there is only one threat in Europe–it is Putin himself, which is obvious to every last gopher in the Alpine meadows.
But if the Kremlin ghoul is so afraid of NATO–it means he truly thinks that there is a power in the world to stop his bloody march. I hope he is afraid of it for good reason.
3. The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine [Parliament], following the President’s lead, called upon the international community to recognize the “LNR” and “DNR” as terrorist organizations.
Because of the abundance of “little sent over Cossacks,” our parliament has for very long been a weak link in the national security system. If the pro-Russian forces are now finally neutralized, and the state consolidates with civil society against a common threat–this will be an undeniable strategic success.
4. Trying to justify their deliberate defeat, the little Russian fighters are employing every means possible [to explain themselves].
The so-called “prime minister” of the terrorist organization DNR, [Alexander] Borodai, claimed that in fact they are waging war not only with Ukraine, but also…with NATO. As in, the terrorists are forced to fight “against an army, for whom a huge mass of mercenaries are fighting from different countries, from Poland, from all over Europe.”
Presumably, when the next reinforcement of mercenaries from Caucasia brings a new batch of drugs, Borodai will suddenly realize that not only Europe and NATO are fighting for Ukrainians, but also the Intergalactic Fleet of Martians. We are looking forward to a protest note from the Russian Foreign Ministry to the Government of Mars.
TT
Eversti
Yritän kuvitella shakkipeliä jossa toinen lukee kuumeisesti sääntökirjaa, toinen fuskaa siirroissa, maalaa omia nappuloitaan uusilla väreillä, huutaa valeita päin naamaa, ja pyrkii lisäämään lautaan uusia ruutuja.
Minuteman
Eversti
Shakkimestarin taidoista ei ole hyötyä pokeripöydässä. Putinilla on kourassaan korkeintaan ässähai ja lännellä on vähintään kunkkupari ja kolme ässää. Panoksia voidaan korotella mutta lopussa katsotaan kortit.
Vonka
Supreme Leader
Yritän kuvitella shakkipeliä jossa toinen lukee kuumeisesti sääntökirjaa, toinen fuskaa siirroissa, maalaa omia nappuloitaan uusilla väreillä, huutaa valeita päin naamaa, ja pyrkii lisäämään lautaan uusia ruutuja.
Se on menossa. Miten oppositiomies Kasparov on Putinin kanssa pärjännyt! Kuka siinä on syöty laudalta...
Harhauta, hämää, horjuta, horjuta, jos toinen työntää, vedä ja jos toinen vetää, työnnä, Horjuta, horjuta, pidä painopiste alhaalla ja kun toisen tukijalka liikahtaa, heitä.
Minuteman
Eversti
Itsestään selvää: Venäjä uhriutuisi ja ilmoittaisi joutuneensa hyökkäyksen kohteeksi joten sillä on kansainvälisten sopimusten mukaisesti oikeus vastata voimatoimin.
Ei pidä provosoitua kun provosoidaan ja Venäjä on pyrkinyt provosoimaan Ukrainaa kaikin mahdollisin keinoin antamaan jonkinmoisen syyn sille, että Venäläiset joukot saisivat edes pienen oikeutuksen murusen vyöryä rajan yli.
Vonka
Supreme Leader
Kyllä rikollisen peli yleensä jossain vaiheessa loppuu, vaikka olisi millainen Al Capone.