Miksi pitäisi olla ohjattu? Rypälepommeissa hajonta vaikuttaa vähemmän ja sen lisäksi voi ampua enemmän.
Ukrainan konflikti/sota
Miksi pitäisi olla ohjattu? Rypälepommeissa hajonta vaikuttaa vähemmän ja sen lisäksi voi ampua enemmän.
Joo, ei välttämättä toki. Ei vain näyttänyt kuvista siltä, että sinne olisi ammuttu useampia. Aika hyvin oli osunut kohdalle. Toki, ilmeisesti oli tapahtunut jo n. viikko ennen noiden kuvien ottamista, että ehtiihän se maasto hiukan jo toipuakin siitä.
Osaako joku Venäjän kalustoa tunteva nimetä, mikä ammus olisi voinut olla kyseessä?
Osaako joku Venäjän kalustoa tunteva nimetä, mikä ammus olisi voinut olla kyseessä?
OldViking
Kersantti
UAlla on tunnetusti logistisia ongelmia. Olisiko ammukset loppuneet ja miehistö lähtenyt sen jälkeen lavetilla "perääntymään" ja ajaneet niin pitkälle kun polttoainetta riitti?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/152_mm_howitzer_2A65
Tuosta linkistä löytyy maininta OF23 ammuksesta, sisältää 42 tytärammusta.
Jos taas kyseessä oli BM-21 (Grad), niin sitten ammuksena on voinut olla 9M217 tai 9M218
Uraganin rypäleammuksen tyyppinimeä en löytänyt.
BM-30:n ammukset löytyy tästä http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-30_Smerch#Rocket_projectiles
GmapsGeneral
Alokas
Rypälepommin ontelo- ja sirpaleammukset ovat teholtaan melko pieniä mutta niitä on paljon tasaisen ja laajaan peiton aikaansaamiseksi.
Suurimmat tuhot ovat aiheuttaneet panssarivaunun omat ammukset ja tulipalo.
Tätä olen yrittänyt sanoa vaikka kaikki ei sitä ole aivan ymmärtäneetkään(en ole kylläkään selventänyt sanomaani tarkemmin).
Toistan, jokin tässä mättää. Ja haiskahtaa. Yksi esimerkki nyt vaikka UA:n pienet tapiot.. Joku Lapin sodan alkuvaiheiden meininki meneillä..?
Onkohan tästä sovittu herrojen kesken jotain mitä emme tiedä? Jotain miten homma(joissain raameissa tietty) hoidellaan ja taputellaan siten että kaikki säilyttävät kasvonsa?
Tai sitten vaan tyhmänä&tietämättömänå arvuuttelen tollouksiani
Tätä olen yrittänyt sanoa vaikka kaikki ei sitä ole aivan ymmärtäneetkään(en ole kylläkään selventänyt sanomaani tarkemmin).
Toistan, jokin tässä mättää. Ja haiskahtaa. Yksi esimerkki nyt vaikka UA:n pienet tapiot.. Joku Lapin sodan alkuvaiheiden meininki meneillä..?
Onkohan tästä sovittu herrojen kesken jotain mitä emme tiedä? Jotain miten homma(joissain raameissa tietty) hoidellaan ja taputellaan siten että kaikki säilyttävät kasvonsa?
Tai sitten vaan tyhmänä&tietämättömänå arvuuttelen tollouksiani
Eiköhän syy pieniin tappioihin ole lukujen rankka kaunistelu....
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausla...iederlage-fuer-kiew-fuer-sicher-a-989308.html
"When the generals of the alliance but then late last week to a crisis meeting on the situation of the army of the Ukrainian PresidentPetro Poroshenko came together, they painted a grim picture. "Militarily, the conflict for Kiev is already lost," stated a senior NATO general. Poroshenko, the judgment, were "really only talks to withdraw his men alive from the pliers of the Russians".
"When the generals of the alliance but then late last week to a crisis meeting on the situation of the army of the Ukrainian PresidentPetro Poroshenko came together, they painted a grim picture. "Militarily, the conflict for Kiev is already lost," stated a senior NATO general. Poroshenko, the judgment, were "really only talks to withdraw his men alive from the pliers of the Russians".
Kiev / Moscow - The NATO has its military assessment of the situation in the eastern Ukraine fundamentally changed. A week ago, the strategists of the Alliance assumed that Russia has strengthened the separatists with covert troops only because the pro-Russian rebels had to retreat under pressure of the Ukrainian army.
When the generals of the alliance but then late last week to a crisis meeting on the situation of the army of the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko came together, they painted a grim picture. "Militarily, the conflict for Kiev is already lost," stated a senior NATO general. Poroshenko, the judgment, were "really only talks to withdraw his men alive from the pliers of the Russians".
The location descriptions behind closed doors were far more dramatic than the few images that NATO published mid-week. On large maps were marked with thick arrows Russian units, which now from the north, the west and the south on the border of eastern Ukraine are at least 20 battalions with a minimum of 500 men and heavy guns are the scouts of NATO.
Of particular concern was the NATO military the new front in the south near the city of Mariupol. Moscow could use the troops to liberate a land connection to the Crimea - and so consolidate the illegal annexation of the peninsula. In addition, having Ukraine in fact completely lost control of their own eastern border.
On the other side of the border, the situation is not much better. Thus, the Ukrainian units encircled by separatists and Russian soldiers with heavy artillery, as well as no more freedom of movement.
Great success in early August - then the setbacks
Kiev had achieved massive military successes in the first week of August and the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk almost included. In Kiev, many hoped for a quick victory. Russia thus strengthened its military support.An offensive by the pro-Russian fighter threw Kiev military far behind.
Since it is a setback after another for Kiev. On Monday, Ukrainian units moved back to heavy fire from the Lugansk airport . After Ukrainian details a Russian tank battalion was involved in the taking. For the first time the separatists thus control an airport. In Kiev the growing fear that Moscow could now support the rebels with fighter planes.
In the south end of the last week of the border town Nowoasowsk fell into the hands of pro-Russian fighters. The units could reach Mariupol rapidly, it is the last major city in the region, Kiev still controlled.
Heavy casualties, many prisoners
Several Ukrainian units were surrounded. Fighters of the volunteer battalions "Azov" and "Dnepr" stuck after heavy fighting firmly near the small town Ilowaisk. We are talking about more than 100 wounded and several hundred prisoners. Only a few members of the force to leave the boiler succeeded. Because of all the failures Poroshenko would occupy leading posts in the army now new, reported the news agency dpa.
From the perspective of NATO strategists therefore an invasion with more Russian forces not necessary. A new turn to Kiev favor close them out. The already infiltrated units are to consider. "Poroshenko dictated where he can move towards his men," said the NATO-man, "in the war it is called a victory."
When the generals of the alliance but then late last week to a crisis meeting on the situation of the army of the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko came together, they painted a grim picture. "Militarily, the conflict for Kiev is already lost," stated a senior NATO general. Poroshenko, the judgment, were "really only talks to withdraw his men alive from the pliers of the Russians".
The location descriptions behind closed doors were far more dramatic than the few images that NATO published mid-week. On large maps were marked with thick arrows Russian units, which now from the north, the west and the south on the border of eastern Ukraine are at least 20 battalions with a minimum of 500 men and heavy guns are the scouts of NATO.
Of particular concern was the NATO military the new front in the south near the city of Mariupol. Moscow could use the troops to liberate a land connection to the Crimea - and so consolidate the illegal annexation of the peninsula. In addition, having Ukraine in fact completely lost control of their own eastern border.
On the other side of the border, the situation is not much better. Thus, the Ukrainian units encircled by separatists and Russian soldiers with heavy artillery, as well as no more freedom of movement.
Great success in early August - then the setbacks
Kiev had achieved massive military successes in the first week of August and the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk almost included. In Kiev, many hoped for a quick victory. Russia thus strengthened its military support.An offensive by the pro-Russian fighter threw Kiev military far behind.
Since it is a setback after another for Kiev. On Monday, Ukrainian units moved back to heavy fire from the Lugansk airport . After Ukrainian details a Russian tank battalion was involved in the taking. For the first time the separatists thus control an airport. In Kiev the growing fear that Moscow could now support the rebels with fighter planes.
In the south end of the last week of the border town Nowoasowsk fell into the hands of pro-Russian fighters. The units could reach Mariupol rapidly, it is the last major city in the region, Kiev still controlled.
Heavy casualties, many prisoners
Several Ukrainian units were surrounded. Fighters of the volunteer battalions "Azov" and "Dnepr" stuck after heavy fighting firmly near the small town Ilowaisk. We are talking about more than 100 wounded and several hundred prisoners. Only a few members of the force to leave the boiler succeeded. Because of all the failures Poroshenko would occupy leading posts in the army now new, reported the news agency dpa.
From the perspective of NATO strategists therefore an invasion with more Russian forces not necessary. A new turn to Kiev favor close them out. The already infiltrated units are to consider. "Poroshenko dictated where he can move towards his men," said the NATO-man, "in the war it is called a victory."
Tämä selkeyttäs pelisääntöjä - kaikki halukkaat vaan mukaan ilman syyllistämistä.
Dnepr , Aidar ja Azov pitivät lehdistötilaisuutta tänään , eivät ole tyytyväisiä poliittiseen johtoon.
" Vapaaehtoispataljoonat esiintyvät sotatilan julistamisen puolesta "
" on käynnissä todellinen sota Venäjää vastaan , sota ulkoista vihollista vastaan , me kaikki näemme sen "
http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/boycy...-za-vvedenie-voennogo-polozheniya-109640.html
" Maidan ei ole päättynyt , me päätämme sen "
" Minulle on sama missä minut tapetaan , täällä vai tuolla "
http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/mayda...m-boycy-dobrovolcheskih-batalonov-109649.html
" ukrainan kansan tulisi mennä kysymään presidentiltä miksi ukrainalaisia kuolee "
" Miksi Kiovassa ja monissa muissa kaupungeissa on sellainen käsitys että ei ole mitään sotaa "
http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/aydar-azov-i-dnepr-4-sentyabrya-namereny-piketirovat-ap-109638.html
Sotatilan puolesta ovat myös liputtaneet Ljashko ja Timoshenko.
" Vapaaehtoispataljoonat esiintyvät sotatilan julistamisen puolesta "
" on käynnissä todellinen sota Venäjää vastaan , sota ulkoista vihollista vastaan , me kaikki näemme sen "
http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/boycy...-za-vvedenie-voennogo-polozheniya-109640.html
" Maidan ei ole päättynyt , me päätämme sen "
" Minulle on sama missä minut tapetaan , täällä vai tuolla "
http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/mayda...m-boycy-dobrovolcheskih-batalonov-109649.html
" ukrainan kansan tulisi mennä kysymään presidentiltä miksi ukrainalaisia kuolee "
" Miksi Kiovassa ja monissa muissa kaupungeissa on sellainen käsitys että ei ole mitään sotaa "
http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/aydar-azov-i-dnepr-4-sentyabrya-namereny-piketirovat-ap-109638.html
Sotatilan puolesta ovat myös liputtaneet Ljashko ja Timoshenko.
Venäläisten mielipiteitä sodasta Ukrainan kanssa on selvittänyt Levada-keskus:
The number of supporters of the invasion of the Ukraine for six months halved
http://www.levada.ru/29-08-2014/chi...heniya-na-ukrainu-za-polgoda-sokratilos-vdvoe
https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.levada.ru/29-08-2014/chislo-storonnikov-vtorzheniya-na-ukrainu-za-polgoda-sokratilos-vdvoe&edit-text=
Alla kuva johon lisätty englanninkielistä selitystä:
The number of supporters of the invasion of the Ukraine for six months halved
http://www.levada.ru/29-08-2014/chi...heniya-na-ukrainu-za-polgoda-sokratilos-vdvoe
https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.levada.ru/29-08-2014/chislo-storonnikov-vtorzheniya-na-ukrainu-za-polgoda-sokratilos-vdvoe&edit-text=
Alla kuva johon lisätty englanninkielistä selitystä:
Viimeksi muokattu:
Tätä olen yrittänyt sanoa vaikka kaikki ei sitä ole aivan ymmärtäneetkään(en ole kylläkään selventänyt sanomaani tarkemmin).
Toistan, jokin tässä mättää. Ja haiskahtaa. Yksi esimerkki nyt vaikka UA:n pienet tapiot.. Joku Lapin sodan alkuvaiheiden meininki meneillä..?
Onkohan tästä sovittu herrojen kesken jotain mitä emme tiedä? Jotain miten homma(joissain raameissa tietty) hoidellaan ja taputellaan siten että kaikki säilyttävät kasvonsa?
Tai sitten vaan tyhmänä&tietämättömänå arvuuttelen tollouksiani
Ukrainan tiedottamisen luotettavuus on erittäin usein kuulijan korvissa.
Totuus kerrotaan vain jos ei ole muuta vaihtoehtoa.
Niin kuin tässä :
Uutinen tänään 2.9. :
" ATO Leonid Matjuhin : vahvistamme että Ukrainan armeija on jättänyt strategisen Saur-Mogilan korkean kohdan ( kukkuilan ) "
http://112.ua/glavnye-novosti/ukrainskie-voyska-pokinuli-saur-mogilu-atc-109380.html
Sisäministerin neuvonantaja Gerashenko kertoi tuosta Saur-Mogilan jättämisestä eilen.
http://112.ua/politika/geraschenko-...v-na-saur-mogile-esche-24-avgusta-109360.html
Todellisuudessa siis ukrainalaiset jättivät Saur-Mogilan jo 24.8.
Tässä videossa 28.8. Venäjän TV 1 pyörii kukkalan huipulla , kohdassa 0.38 lipun poisto , tottakai , ja sitten kuvaa ympäristöstä.
http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/266479
Myrskyhiiri
Respected Leader
Mitä!!??? Eikö tässä ollutkaan kyse niistä ARVOISTA? Ai niin kyse olikin euron, dollarin ja ruplan arvoista. OK.
D
Deleted member 1079
Guest
Siis ihan järkyttävän paljon miehiä, aseistusta, BMD-2, T-72:sia yms. Eräässä twiitissä oli tieto että saattueesa myös 3kpl Buk-m2 ohjusjärjestelmiä. Ei ihme jos Ukrainan armeija joutuu vetäytymään.
Luhanskin lähellä kuvattu. Milloinhan YK/UK/USA voisi myöntää että Venäjä hyökkää ja miehittää Ukrainaa.
Luhanskin lähellä kuvattu. Milloinhan YK/UK/USA voisi myöntää että Venäjä hyökkää ja miehittää Ukrainaa.
Ääh. Siinähän on vain Venäjän armeija lähtenyt lomalle karavaanari-meiningillä
Olikohan tuossa about mekanisoitu pataljoona?
Kyl ne taitaa olla aika tosissaan...
Sieltä Pihkovan maahanlaskujoukoista taisikin menehtyä vahvistettu komppania, jopa 140 miestä. Kyllä Venäjällekin tulee tappioita. Kaverit ei taida pitää, kun kuolemia pyritään kätkemään.
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrai...loses-control-of-telmanovo-north-of-mariupol/
Entire Pskov 'Company' Killed in Ukraine: Local Newspaper
17:23 (GMT)
An entire company of Pskov paratroopers has been killed fighting in Ukraine, slon.ru reported, citing an article in the local newspaper Pskovskaya Guberniya published today September 2.
(Note: the links in this article to the original sources may not work either due to overload of the pages as they are widely being accessed in Russia now, or possibly because of removal of the articles; the web cache for Pskovskaya Guberniya can be tried here).
Pskovskaya Guberniya say that after publishing the news of three paratroopers' funerals last week, they received at their editorial offices a tape claiming to be recorded interviews with paratroopers who requested anonymity. They believed the tape to be authentic. A copy of the transcript has been posted on the blog of Pskov legislator Lev Shlosberg.
Shlosberg is recovering from injuries sustained in an assault by unknown persons last week which he ties to his investigation of what happened to the paratroopers in his home region.
The sources claim on the tape that only 10 men have survived out of a regiment numbering 80; among them was Leonid Kichatkin, whose funeral was observed by Russian journalists August 25. Up to 140 paratroopers could have died, say the sources, since the division fighting in Ukraine was made up not only of regular army but specially-assigned troops.
Friends of Kichatkin said that he died in battle and that they would "punch out" the man who pretended to be him on the phone to fool reporters.
Shlosberg told Russian blogger Oleg Kashin that the families of the paratroopers were told to keep quiet, and were threatened with loss of state welfare support if they didn't.
He said that the causes of death were listed as variously "explosion of a gas tank," "heart attack" or "stroke" and the place of death was not indicated.
He said one mother of a paratrooper wrote on her social media page that "everything was made up" and that the "journalists are bastards," and that her son was "alive and well." But he was said to be in the hospital with an amputated leg. He thought it was possible that such social media accounts could be taken over by authorities.
The regiment left for Ukraine on the 20th at 10:00 am, and were told not to turn on phones
The Interpreter has translated an excerpt of the recorded interview. .
Voice 1: Yes...the telephones were intercepted. There is an American electronic warfare brigade there.
Voice 1: I'm telling you, how it was, I'll tell you. We were going along, shit, looking for those f**king Ukes, as they call them. We looked for them, shit. It turns out, we were detected, and wham, we were drawn in, lured into an ambush, you see? Whoosh. We were f**ked. Wham, shit, we jumped out on the road, thee was a field there, f**k, there were sunflowers and a checkpoint. They began to bomb it bang-bang-bang, they destroyed it. We then went further along the field. And the shooting is coming from there, you see, we were moving toward where the shooting was coming from.
Voice 2: In short, in an open place?
Voice 1: Yes...From there, from the other side, they were also shooting. Our artillery were firing on Georgievka. They knocked out whomever they saw, do you see? It was a battle, how could you know. Really...They were firing from that side, firing, firing ...You don't know where it's coming from, in general, where the shelling is coming from.
Voice 2: And where were you in general in Rostov, in the hospital?
Voice 1: Uh-huh.
Voice 2: Well, where are those people who were killed? Where are they now in general, what happened?
Voice 1: I don't know...
Voice 2: The [bodies] remained there? Are they picking them up?
Voice 1: I don't know...they sent them out...You see Lyonka [Kichatkin] was transferred here. Maybe they sent them here. T*** has a list, who is where. Who was killed, who wasn't, you see?
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrai...loses-control-of-telmanovo-north-of-mariupol/
Entire Pskov 'Company' Killed in Ukraine: Local Newspaper
17:23 (GMT)
An entire company of Pskov paratroopers has been killed fighting in Ukraine, slon.ru reported, citing an article in the local newspaper Pskovskaya Guberniya published today September 2.
(Note: the links in this article to the original sources may not work either due to overload of the pages as they are widely being accessed in Russia now, or possibly because of removal of the articles; the web cache for Pskovskaya Guberniya can be tried here).
Pskovskaya Guberniya say that after publishing the news of three paratroopers' funerals last week, they received at their editorial offices a tape claiming to be recorded interviews with paratroopers who requested anonymity. They believed the tape to be authentic. A copy of the transcript has been posted on the blog of Pskov legislator Lev Shlosberg.
Shlosberg is recovering from injuries sustained in an assault by unknown persons last week which he ties to his investigation of what happened to the paratroopers in his home region.
The sources claim on the tape that only 10 men have survived out of a regiment numbering 80; among them was Leonid Kichatkin, whose funeral was observed by Russian journalists August 25. Up to 140 paratroopers could have died, say the sources, since the division fighting in Ukraine was made up not only of regular army but specially-assigned troops.
Friends of Kichatkin said that he died in battle and that they would "punch out" the man who pretended to be him on the phone to fool reporters.
Shlosberg told Russian blogger Oleg Kashin that the families of the paratroopers were told to keep quiet, and were threatened with loss of state welfare support if they didn't.
He said that the causes of death were listed as variously "explosion of a gas tank," "heart attack" or "stroke" and the place of death was not indicated.
He said one mother of a paratrooper wrote on her social media page that "everything was made up" and that the "journalists are bastards," and that her son was "alive and well." But he was said to be in the hospital with an amputated leg. He thought it was possible that such social media accounts could be taken over by authorities.
The regiment left for Ukraine on the 20th at 10:00 am, and were told not to turn on phones
The Interpreter has translated an excerpt of the recorded interview. .
Voice 1: Yes...the telephones were intercepted. There is an American electronic warfare brigade there.
Voice 1: I'm telling you, how it was, I'll tell you. We were going along, shit, looking for those f**king Ukes, as they call them. We looked for them, shit. It turns out, we were detected, and wham, we were drawn in, lured into an ambush, you see? Whoosh. We were f**ked. Wham, shit, we jumped out on the road, thee was a field there, f**k, there were sunflowers and a checkpoint. They began to bomb it bang-bang-bang, they destroyed it. We then went further along the field. And the shooting is coming from there, you see, we were moving toward where the shooting was coming from.
Voice 2: In short, in an open place?
Voice 1: Yes...From there, from the other side, they were also shooting. Our artillery were firing on Georgievka. They knocked out whomever they saw, do you see? It was a battle, how could you know. Really...They were firing from that side, firing, firing ...You don't know where it's coming from, in general, where the shelling is coming from.
Voice 2: And where were you in general in Rostov, in the hospital?
Voice 1: Uh-huh.
Voice 2: Well, where are those people who were killed? Where are they now in general, what happened?
Voice 1: I don't know...
Voice 2: The [bodies] remained there? Are they picking them up?
Voice 1: I don't know...they sent them out...You see Lyonka [Kichatkin] was transferred here. Maybe they sent them here. T*** has a list, who is where. Who was killed, who wasn't, you see?
