F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet
- Viestiketjun aloittaja Einomies1
- Aloitus PVM
Tuossa ei kyllä puhuta nyt laitteen ottotehosta sähköjärjestelmästä. Missään tuon kokoisessa koneessa ei ole 600 kW generaattoria. Kyse on tutkan pulssitehosta, joka synnytetään hetkellisesti, mikrosekuntien ajaksi esim magnetronilla tai jollakin lähetinputkella esim kulkuaaltoputki tai klystron (tuohon aikaan ei tainnut olla vielä puolijohdelähettimiä?). Tämä on ihan eri asia kuin sähkölaitteen ottoteho. Tutkan, jonka pulssiteho on esim 6 kW, laitteiston sähkön ottoteho voi olla 1,0 - 1,5 kW sisältäen antennikoneiston.
Viimeksi muokattu:
Teräsvilla
Eversti
Siinä komeessa on ollu yhtä paljon rautaa keulassa kun perässäkin. On meinaan aika hulppeat virrat kyseessä, oli sitten hetkellinenkään teho.
Hulppeammalla mielikuvituksella vois luulla että kun tutkan jättää kotiin niin tuolla koneella pääsis poimuajoon =D
Täällä on joku alustavasti lupaavan näköinen Quora-vastaus, jossa on ainakin googlattavaksi komponenttien nimiä.
Eli lyhyesti arvio: "So it’s likely that the MiG-25’s radar only had a maximum of around 18kW or 27kW to draw upon for its radar."James Smith
Answered March 10, 2019
Radars do not normally emit energy continuously; instead they emit pulses and then go silent so that they can better hear the return signal (and so that there’s a distinct rise & fall that can be used to measure things like the closing velocity of a target, as well as its range).
The ratio between the amount of time that a radar is transmitting, versus being silent, is known as the radar’s duty cycle. This number can change depending on operating modes, what band the radar is operating in, etc, but duty cycles can be as high as around 50% or as low as around 0.01% (emitting only for 1/1000th of the time).
By using capacitors, a radar with (eg) 6kW of power being supplied to it can store energy and, at a duty cycle of (eg) 1%, emit 600kW pulses, provided that the circuitry in the radar can handle the instantaneous power. If this is the maximum amount of power that a radar can handle, then it is known as the radar’s peak power. A radar also has an average power, which may represent something like a typical duty cycle of 10% but a much lower pulse power of something like 1kW.
Now, as for the MiG-25; page 72 of “Soviet Spyplanes of the Cold War” by Yefim Gordon states that the MiG-25 had:
I couldn’t find any data on the GSR-12KIS 28V DC generators, but it’s important to understand that for transmitting large amounts of power, you want / need to use higher voltages. Electrical power = voltage * current. A high voltage and low current will minimise losses to heat, but it can result in electricity jumping across wires and short-circuiting; a low voltage and high enough current meanwhile will result in wires turning red hot and melting. The F-35 for example has 28V DC power supplies for things like its fly-by-wire computers, but for its radar and other high-power systems it uses a 270V DC power system.
- 2x GSR-12KIS generators which produced 28V DC power
- 2x SGK-11/1.5KIS or SGK-11/1.5KIS-M generators which produced 200/215V, 400Hz 3-phase AC power
As such, it’s very likely that the MiG-25’s radar was powered via its 200/215V AC power network, and fortunately we do have data on these SGK-11/1.5KIS generators. According to this German .pdf document:
So it’s likely that the MiG-25’s radar only had a maximum of around 18kW or 27kW to draw upon for its radar. That might sound low compared to the F-35’s 3x 80kW generators, but you have to remember that the F-35 has many more electrically-powered systems than the MiG-25; the F-35 is the only fighter to transmit power to its control surface actuators via electricity (where self-contained pumps control hydraulic actuators) rather than hydraulic pressure. Even the F-22 has less powerful generators than the F-35.
- The SGK-11/1.5KIS weighs 36kg and produces 9.35kW.
- The SGK-11/1.5KIS-M weighs 36kg and produces 13.6kW.
Teräsvilla
Eversti
Tämä varmaan selventää asiaa. Onko tietoa, käytetäänkö tutkajärjestelmien lähetyapään yhteydessä konkkia? Niiatähän irtoais hetkelliaeati virtaa. Mutta lataus sitte kestää...
Tavallaan se muistuttaa kondensaattorin toimintaa... En taida ehtiä nyt kaivaa tarkkaa kuvausta (käytetään esimerkkinä sitä magnetronilähetintä) tarkkaa toimintaperiaatetta. Pitää kaivella vähän ja koittaa vastata jossain vaiheessa. Onkohan se magnetronin ohjauspiiri RC-piiri, joka värähtelee PRF:n tahdissa ja luovuttaa lähetyshetkellä energiansa pulssin muodostamiseen. Meniköhän se näin.
Einomies1
Respected Leader
Raaf Growlerit on integroitu myös Aim-9x ohjuksen käyttöön. Pommeja se ei kanna, vaikka aikaisemmin niin sanoin.
Tieto löytyy Australian kuninkaallisten ilmavoimien sivulta: https://www.airforce.gov.au/technology/aircraft/strike/ea-18g-growler
Growleriin voi integroida varmasti samat aseet kuin Superiinkin, ei siinä ole mitään esteitä teknisesti.
Einomies1
Respected Leader
Hx:n jälkeen ilmeisesti puuttuvat suorituskyvyt todennetaan lähtömaissa sensitiivisten ominaisuuksien osalta. Ilmeisesti Ilmavoimilta ym.kävi delegaatio USAssa viime syksynä tutkimassa Growleria ja ehkä myös F-35:ä.
Bojon tarjouksesta Sveitsille. Teollisyhteistyö painottuu voimakkaasti UAV:eihin. 11 eri niihin liittyvää tutkimusprojektia.
www.cockpit.aero
Boeing will Schweizer Industrie der unbemannten Luftfahrt fördern
Boeing plant elf neue Forschungsprojekte für unbemannte Flugsysteme (Unmanned Aircraft Systems – UAS) mit Partnern aus der Schweiz. Damit will Boeing das bestehende UAS-Ökosystem in der Schweiz ausbauen und massgebliche Technologien für die Zukunft der kommerziellen und militärischen Luft- und...
www.cockpit.aero
2016 juttua Naton Euroopan SEADista on kiintoisaa katsella Growler Suomessa -valossa.
"in 2015, the US stated it wanted Europe and Canada to provide 50% of NATO’s SEAD capability and reduce reliance on Washington."
"In 2023 they need to show a viable European SEAD capability with the full 50% force mix ready by 2030." (miten mahtuvat nykymenolla euro-Natomaat tähän aikatauluun?)
"In December 2021, NATO’s SEAD policy will be revised"
"in 2015, the US stated it wanted Europe and Canada to provide 50% of NATO’s SEAD capability and reduce reliance on Washington."
"In 2023 they need to show a viable European SEAD capability with the full 50% force mix ready by 2030." (miten mahtuvat nykymenolla euro-Natomaat tähän aikatauluun?)
"In December 2021, NATO’s SEAD policy will be revised"
EW Europe: NATO to tackle SEAD gap | Shephard
NATO is pushing ahead with a programme to fill its capability gap in the suppression of enemy air defence (SEAD). The programme intends to develop …
www.shephardmedia.com
Einomies1
Respected Leader
Ilmeisesti tänä vuonna Sigonellaan tulleet 5 kpl NATOn Boeing Phoenix (Global Hawk) koneita, ovat osa tätä luuppia.
Phoenix Soars Over Sigonella For First Flight
It took over 20 years and more than 20 countries to make it happen, but on June 4, the Phoenix rose into the Sicilian sky for a momentous first flight, heralding a new era in NATO aviation history.
Ei taida jameja tai aargmia tuo tehdä vaan on edelleen pitkäkestoista ISRää. Mutta osa jaettua NATO Alliance Ground Surveillance -luuppia.
"the Phoenix’s sensors collected Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) imagery and Moving Target Information (MTI) data"
Einomies1
Respected Leader
Ei teekkään, mutta kuten linkissäsi lukee, ISR on osa ew-datan keräysjärjestelmää ja varsin keskeinen onkin. Sama kuin Suomen Dragonshield."Coming in at over 7 tons and with a longer wingspan than a Boeing 737"Phoenix Soars Over Sigonella For First Flight
It took over 20 years and more than 20 countries to make it happen, but on June 4, the Phoenix rose into the Sicilian sky for a momentous first flight, heralding a new era in NATO aviation history.www.dvidshub.net
Ei taida jameja tai aargmia tuo tehdä vaan on edelleen pitkäkestoista ISRää. Mutta osa jaettua NATO Alliance Ground Surveillance -luuppia.
"the Phoenix’s sensors collected Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) imagery and Moving Target Information (MTI) data"
Olympiakasarmi
Kenraali
FY2022 budjettikirjan mukaan Super Hornetin tuki jatkuu FY2046 saakka.
Eli mikäli tehdään MLU2:n aikaistus kuten Hornetin kanssa tehtiin, niin elinkaari riittää meille.
Gyllis1
Respected Leader
Navy Budgets for 8 Ships, 107 Aircraft for Fiscal 2022 Procurement
28 May 2021 Richard R. Burgess
"ARLINGTON, Va. — The Navy Department’s fiscal 2022 budget requests totals $211.7 billion, a $3.8 billion increase over the enacted 2021 budget. The request includes funds for eight battle force ships and 107 aircraft. The Navy Department’s $211.7 billion request is part of the Defense Department’s $715 billion request....
...AIRCRAFT
Funding of aircraft procurement for 2022 totals $16.5 billion, a 15.6% decrease from 2021’s $19.5 billion. Navy aircraft requested for 2022 include 20 F-35C Lightning II strike fighters, five E-2D Advanced Hawkeye battle management aircraft, three CMV-22B Osprey carrier-onboard-delivery aircraft and 36 TH-73A training helicopters. For the Marine Corps, the request includes funds for 17 F-35Bs, six KC-130J Super Hercules tanker/transport aircraft, nine CH-53K King Stallion heavy-lift helicopters, five MV-22B Osprey assault transport tiltrotor aircraft and six MQ-9 extended-range Reaper medium-altitude surveillance unmanned aerial vehicles.
Notably, the budget contains no further funding for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet strike fighter, P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol reconnaissance aircraft, the VH-92A presidential transport helicopter or the training version of the E-6B Mercury strategic communications aircraft. Procurement of these types has been completed, assuming no additions by the Congress. There is no 2022 request for funding for the MQ-4C Triton high-altitude, long-endurance UAV in that there is a pause in procurement while the UAV’s Integrated Functional Capability 4 is matured.
RDT&E funds are programed for the F-35, CH-53E, VH-92A, Next-Generation Jammer, F/A-18E/F Advanced Infrared Search and Track (IRST), and MQ-25 Stingray UAV.
The 2022 budget plan calls for accelerated divestment of legacy F/A-18A-D Hornet strike fighters, moving up the divestment of the 55 on strength from 2024 to 2022 and replacing them in the adversary role with F-16s transferred from the Air Force. Divestment of the RQ-4A Global Hawk Broad-Area Maritime Surveillance-Demonstrator UAV is planned for acceleration from 2023 to 2022, with the savings invested in higher priorities...."
https://seapowermagazine.org/navy-budge ... ocurement/
28 May 2021 Richard R. Burgess
"ARLINGTON, Va. — The Navy Department’s fiscal 2022 budget requests totals $211.7 billion, a $3.8 billion increase over the enacted 2021 budget. The request includes funds for eight battle force ships and 107 aircraft. The Navy Department’s $211.7 billion request is part of the Defense Department’s $715 billion request....
...AIRCRAFT
Funding of aircraft procurement for 2022 totals $16.5 billion, a 15.6% decrease from 2021’s $19.5 billion. Navy aircraft requested for 2022 include 20 F-35C Lightning II strike fighters, five E-2D Advanced Hawkeye battle management aircraft, three CMV-22B Osprey carrier-onboard-delivery aircraft and 36 TH-73A training helicopters. For the Marine Corps, the request includes funds for 17 F-35Bs, six KC-130J Super Hercules tanker/transport aircraft, nine CH-53K King Stallion heavy-lift helicopters, five MV-22B Osprey assault transport tiltrotor aircraft and six MQ-9 extended-range Reaper medium-altitude surveillance unmanned aerial vehicles.
Notably, the budget contains no further funding for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet strike fighter, P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol reconnaissance aircraft, the VH-92A presidential transport helicopter or the training version of the E-6B Mercury strategic communications aircraft. Procurement of these types has been completed, assuming no additions by the Congress. There is no 2022 request for funding for the MQ-4C Triton high-altitude, long-endurance UAV in that there is a pause in procurement while the UAV’s Integrated Functional Capability 4 is matured.
RDT&E funds are programed for the F-35, CH-53E, VH-92A, Next-Generation Jammer, F/A-18E/F Advanced Infrared Search and Track (IRST), and MQ-25 Stingray UAV.
The 2022 budget plan calls for accelerated divestment of legacy F/A-18A-D Hornet strike fighters, moving up the divestment of the 55 on strength from 2024 to 2022 and replacing them in the adversary role with F-16s transferred from the Air Force. Divestment of the RQ-4A Global Hawk Broad-Area Maritime Surveillance-Demonstrator UAV is planned for acceleration from 2023 to 2022, with the savings invested in higher priorities...."
https://seapowermagazine.org/navy-budge ... ocurement/
Gyllis1
Respected Leader
No, ei tuo kyllä oikein tämän kanssa natsaa:
Elinkaarikustannusten näkökulmasta pahin tilanne olisi se, jos pääkäyttäjät luopuisivat hävittäjätyypistä ja Suomi jäisi ainoana maana käyttämään konetta ja maksamaan loppuajan ylläpidosta, mahdollisesti aina 2060-luvulle saakka.
”Ylivoimaisesti kriittisin asia on se, ettemme jää yksin koneen kehittämisen kanssa. Siihen meillä ei ole varaa”, Puranen sanoo."
wargame
Kapteeni
As always, it is important to note that this is just a budget proposal and that Congress will have the final say in which of these provisions, if any, get approved in the end. Lawmakers routinely block requests and even insert additional funding for certain aircraft the Pentagon and the various service branches have not asked for.
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