PAKFA

magitsu kirjoitti:
Tuossa juttua kuinka 11 miljardin T-50 (PAK FA) hankinta esitetään olevan köysissä. Ei tunnu vastaavan IAF:n odotuksiin niin mitenkään. Esim. stealth-ominaisuudet ovat täysin puheiden varassa, koska intialaisille ei ole annettu pääsyä testituloksiin. Moottorit tehottomia, aseiden integrointi kehnoa. Ongelmia kautta linjan.
Voi jäädä todella vähiin tuon ohjelman tilaukset. Venäläisille itselleen vain yksi lentue, joka nähdään merkittävänä osoituksena luottamuksen puutteesta. Intia saattaa nostaa kytkintä kokonaan.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/...a-jet-deal-on-brink-of-collapse/1/555043.html

Tietenkin kyseessä voi olla perinteinen teknologiansiirtojen herutus vihjaillen oltavan lähellä tilannetta, jossa Intia ottaa takkinsa. Heillä ei ole suoranaista varasuunnitelmaa ja viime aikoina on lähinnä syntynyt sutta hankinnoissa. Silti tuo venäläisten oman rajauksen signaaliarvon merkitys on ehkä aliarvoitu maailmalla.
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Venäjällä on Intialle ainakin yksi varasuunnitelma, mikäli T50 kauppa kariutuu. Venäjä ja Intia kehittävät yhdessä par'aikaa, viidennen sukupolven ominaisuuksia hyödyntävää, Su35S Silent-versiota, joka mahdollisesti korvaa T50 kaupan;

Su-27(35)Skin.jpg

http://defence.pk/threads/russia-and-india-to-work-on-5th-gen-upgrade-to-su-35-fighter.406378/
"
Russia and India have signed an agreement to jointly develop a fifth-generation upgrade of the Su-35 Super Flanker multirole fighter, according to a report published March 8 on Virginia-based military affairs website Defense News.

The fighter will be a fifth-generation fighter like the US Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II, as opposed to the fourth-generation version of the Su-35 over which Russia and China are currently negotiating a deal.

The Su-35 Super Flanker will be unable to compete with other "genuine" fifth-generation fighters and China does not need to get caught up in a game of one-upmanship with India and Russia, said an expert cited by China's nationalistic tabloid Global Times.

Fifth-Generation Su-35S :

Defense News cited a Russian military insider as stating that Moscow and New Delhi have signed an agreement to design what Russia is calling the fifth-generation version of the Su-35 in India, which will see an Indian variant of the fighter created called the Su-35S. Sergey Chemezov, CEO of Russian state-run tech export corporation Rostec, was cited by the website as saying, "We have been negotiating and have signed the intention protocol for the Su-35...Now we are working on designing ideas for this contract and on creating a manufacturing platform for the aircraft of the fifth generation."

The shift from the fourth-generation Su-35, currently in service with the Russian Air Force, to the fifth-generation Su-35S will necessitate a large upgrade. The report in Defense News questioned the ability of the Su-35S to bear comparison with the F-35. An Indian Air Force official said Russia has pitched the Su-35S several times over the last six months, stating that it can replace the Indian Air Force's MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters, set to be retired from service in seven to eight years.

Russia and India have already worked together on the development of a fifth-generation stealth fighter, the PAK FA T-50. The Defense News report suggested that the reason Russia has suddenly announced the development program for the stealth fighter is because they are trying to undercut France following the refusal of Paris to provide Russia with two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships. In 2012, New Delhi decided to buy 126 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters from the French company but they have been unable to reach a final agreement due to the technology transfer involved and the price. A Russian industry source cited in the report said the Su-35S will cost only US$85 million, very competitive when compared with the Rafale, and poses a threat to the deal between France and India. A report in the New Delhi-based Economic Times previously stated that India's air force command considers the Russian fighter and the Rafale to be complementary and that the former does not replace the need for the latter.
"
 
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Mikoyan kirjoitti:
Venäjällä on Intialle ainakin yksi varasuunnitelma, mikäli T50 kauppa kariutuu. Venäjä ja Intia kehittävät yhdessä par'aikaa, viidennen sukupolven ominaisuuksia hyödyntävää, Su35S Silent-versiota, joka mahdollisesti korvaa T50 kaupan;

http://defence.pk/threads/russia-and-india-to-work-on-5th-gen-upgrade-to-su-35-fighter.406378/
"
Russia and India have signed an agreement to jointly develop a fifth-generation upgrade of the Su-35 Super Flanker multirole fighter, according to a report published March 8 on Virginia-based military affairs website Defense News.

The fighter will be a fifth-generation fighter like the US Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II, as opposed to the fourth-generation version of the Su-35 over which Russia and China are currently negotiating a deal.

The Su-35 Super Flanker will be unable to compete with other "genuine" fifth-generation fighters and China does not need to get caught up in a game of one-upmanship with India and Russia, said an expert cited by China's nationalistic tabloid Global Times.

Fifth-Generation Su-35S :

Defense News cited a Russian military insider as stating that Moscow and New Delhi have signed an agreement to design what Russia is calling the fifth-generation version of the Su-35 in India, which will see an Indian variant of the fighter created called the Su-35S. Sergey Chemezov, CEO of Russian state-run tech export corporation Rostec, was cited by the website as saying, "We have been negotiating and have signed the intention protocol for the Su-35...Now we are working on designing ideas for this contract and on creating a manufacturing platform for the aircraft of the fifth generation."

The shift from the fourth-generation Su-35, currently in service with the Russian Air Force, to the fifth-generation Su-35S will necessitate a large upgrade. The report in Defense News questioned the ability of the Su-35S to bear comparison with the F-35. An Indian Air Force official said Russia has pitched the Su-35S several times over the last six months, stating that it can replace the Indian Air Force's MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters, set to be retired from service in seven to eight years.

Russia and India have already worked together on the development of a fifth-generation stealth fighter, the PAK FA T-50. The Defense News report suggested that the reason Russia has suddenly announced the development program for the stealth fighter is because they are trying to undercut France following the refusal of Paris to provide Russia with two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships. In 2012, New Delhi decided to buy 126 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters from the French company but they have been unable to reach a final agreement due to the technology transfer involved and the price. A Russian industry source cited in the report said the Su-35S will cost only US$85 million, very competitive when compared with the Rafale, and poses a threat to the deal between France and India. A report in the New Delhi-based Economic Times previously stated that India's air force command considers the Russian fighter and the Rafale to be complementary and that the former does not replace the need for the latter.
"
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Ei siitä kyllä VLO-konetta saa aikaiseksi kovin helposti. Vähän erikoinen kuvio. Ehkä kyseessä olisi vain Intian oma SU-35-variantti?

Mutta tuo kertoo karua kieltä PAK-FA:sta.
 
Venäläisen sivuston juttu PAK-FA:n moottorikehityksestä, googlen kääntäjän läpi vedetty.


At specialized domestic and foreign websites widely discussed information about the timing of the start of flight tests "article 30" long-term domestic engine, intended for installation on military aircraft.The first perspective is planned to install the engine on the fifth-generation fighter T-50, which is currently undergoing flight tests. New aircraft engine is also referred to as "the engine of the second stage" for the machine T-50.

According to the chief designer - Director engine-OKB. A.Lyulki (a branch of the Ufa Engine Plant) Eugene Marchukova, the first flight of the T-50 (Sukhoi PAK FA) with the "engine of the second stage" will be held in late 2017 or early 2018, with machine T-50 It will be used as a flying laboratory.

According E.Marchukova prototype "of the second stage engine" for the T-50 is in production and is being tested on the stand of the inner loop of this promising turbofans. Ground test demonstrator engine will begin this summer. According to its characteristics "article 30" will exceed the set is now on the T-50 engine "product 117" (AL-41F1) by 15-20%. Features of the power plant increased due to a sharp improvement in the operating cycle parameters efficiency units, new construction materials is significantly reduced specific fuel consumption (not only in cruising mode but also in the afterburner mode), and others.

According to the developers, the number of components in the high-pressure compressor (HPC) "product 30" reduced by almost half compared to the previous stage of the compressor motor (AL-41F1), while providing a significant increase in work at one stage. The cost of manufacturing such a compressor will not exceed the production of the fourth generation of HPC cost of the engine (the AL-41F1) subject to the application of new materials and technologies. The new engine for T-50 (PAK FA) composites are used, which are constructed not only in a polymer matrix to the cold side, as well as details of the compositions formed from high temperature.

KB-integrator for engine development "article 30" is a branch of PJSC "Ufa Engine Industrial Association" (UMPO) - OKB. A.Lyulki. In co-operation to create a "product 30" also involved the Moscow JSC "NTC Gas Turbine" Salute "and JSC" NPP "Motor" (Ufa). Also involved in the work of experts Rybinsk NPO "Saturn", included in the PJSC "United Engine Building Corporation". The lead manufacturer serial "engines of the second stage of the" T-50 defined UMPO.

http://zhukvesti.info/articles/detail/38421/
 
Onhan noita ollut jo jonkun aikaa, mutta nyt on ollut huhua että ensimmäiset asetestit sisäisestä asekuilusta olisi tehty.
 
Miksi noita rypälepommeja voi laittaa sisäisiin asekuiluihin? Luulisi siellä olevan tilaa ihan tarpeeksi. Vai onko se hajonnan takia niin että ko. pommit tulee laittaa ympäri konetta, jotta kohteeseen saadaan tarpeeksi laaja alainen vaikutus?
 
Tässä vaiheessa kokeillaan varmaan asejärjestelmää ja se on kätevintä tehdä ulkoisia ripustimia käyttäen kun sisäisiä ei ole vielä kunnolla testattu.
 
ctg kirjoitti:
Miksi noita rypälepommeja voi laittaa sisäisiin asekuiluihin? Luulisi siellä olevan tilaa ihan tarpeeksi. Vai onko se hajonnan takia niin että ko. pommit tulee laittaa ympäri konetta, jotta kohteeseen saadaan tarpeeksi laaja alainen vaikutus?
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Kuten sanottiin, niin olisiko kuilun testauksen puute. Itse mietin, että noin tylppä jööti saattaa käyttäytyä arvaamattomasti, kun se tulee ulos kuilusta.
 
Ensimmäinen toisen vaiheen prototyyppi, T-50-6-2, on lentänyt tänään. Toki ilman toisen vaiheen moottoreita, joiden ensilento on edelleen suunniteltu 2017 lopulle/2018 alkuun. Tuotantoversiosta (T-50S) on saatu sellaista tietoa, että runko tulisi prototyypiltä T-50-11 ja laitteisto T-50-9ltä. Suunnitelmahan on että T-50-8 lentäisi reilun kuukauden päästä, T-50-9 syyskuuhun mennessä, T-50-10 joulukuuhun mennessä ja T-50-11 2017 alkuvuodesta, mutta viivästyksiähän tulee enemmän kuin todennäköisesti, joten veikkaisin, että ainakin T-50-10 siirtyy ensivuoden puolelle. Kohtalainen mahdollisuus kuitenkin, että tänä vuonna nähdään 3 prototyypin ensilennot.
 
http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...l-to-Crash-Land/2016/04/24/article3396450.ece

"In an internal communication to the Ministry of Defence, the Air Headquarters has flagged at least 15 objections to the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), ranging from fighter’s unreliable engine, poor stealth features, and inadequate radar to its high cost overrun. The letter sent last month has virtually grounded the entire program."

"India’s work share in FGFA research and development and other aspects of the multi-billion dollar project at the moment is nearly 10 per cent, even though Delhi is bearing 50 per cent of the project cost."

Aika tuuheaa touhua.
 
Viimeksi muokattu:
Onkohan ainakin 3. tai 4. kerta kun tuo aivan sama tarina kiertää maailmalla ja tässäkin ketjussa. Uskottavuutta vaan syö mm. tuo väite moottorista. Se voi hyvinkin olla epäluotettava, mutta intialaisten kannalta sillä ei mitään merkitystä ole, kun heidän versionsa ei ole missään vaiheessa ollut tarkoituskaan sillä lentää. Jokainen edes etäisesti sivusilmällä PAK FA-ohjelmaa seurannut tietää, että varsinainen viidennen polven moottori on vielä kehityksessä, eikä nykyisellä moottorilla ole tarkoitus varustaa kuin prototyypit ja Venäjän ensimmäinen tuotantoerä. Nythän näyttää siltä, että Venäjä on sen ensimmäisen erän supistanut vain yhteen laivueeseen, joka tuotetaan ilmeisestikin pitkälti vain ilmavoimille uuteen konetyyppiin tutustumista ja testausta varten, ennen kuin varsinainen sarjatuotanto oikealla moottorilla alkaa. Tältä pohjalta ei voi muitakaan väitteitä purematta niellä. Toki kustannusten käsistä karkaaminen on tämän päivän projekteissa pitkälti sääntö ilman poikkeusta, joten se lienee totta.
 
Tässä koneyksilössä moottorien alaosa on maalattu ja ilmanottoaukon takana oleva sensori poikkeaa aiemmista.

0_13d71b_da753374_orig.jpg
 
Sinun täytyy kirjautua vastataksesi.
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