Taisteluhelikopterit

Shadowmon

Eversti
*** Tästä editoitu pois moderaattorin pyynnöstä foorumin sääntöjen vastainen huomatutus rikkinäisten linkkejen jakamisesta sekä faktojen tarkistamisesta. Toivottavasti foorumin moderointi puuttuu myös esim. rikkinäisten linkkejen jakamiseen jota useilla foorumeilla pidetään vähintäänkin vittumaisena toimintana ***

Kyllä tietysti näinkin, mutta jos koko maan kopteritoiminta on yhden toimian näpeissä ja sitä tehdään virkatyönä, ei se silti poista NH90 tyyppistä ongelmaa.

Cougar on varmasti ansioitunut kone, mutta eittämättä vanhaa teknologiaa. Nyt taidettiin haluta modernia tuotetta jolla on ns. päivitysvaraa. Eikä se käyttö johon NH-90 hankittiin ole se mihin Raja hankki omansa ole sama. Maallikon silmissä kopteri kuin kopteri, mutta meripelastuskopteri on täysin oma laitteensa. Virhe on varmasti selkeä, mutta jos aina hankitaan vanhaa, kalusto ei ikinä ole modernia ja kehityskelpoista, vaan vanhaa auringonlasku kamaa. Eli vaikea valinta.



Vaikka FinnHEMS on yksityinen, sen omistavat sairaanhoitopiirit. Kopteritoiminta taas ostetaan kahdelta yksityiseltä toimialta. Käsittääkseni Raja, eikä PV ei sitä halua kontolleen.
Nimenomaan näin. Esim. hävittäjähankinnoissa jotkut vastustavat F-35:sta koska se on uusi ja voi olla lastentauteja. Sitten taas toisaalta jos Venäjä saa tulevaisuudessa omia häivehävittäjiä ulos niin F-35 saattaa olla ainoa joka näille koneille pärjää. Ostaakko silti vaikkapa Gripeniä joka on vanhempaa sukupolvea, mutta ns. varmempi valinta. Nämä asiat eivät välttämättä ole kovin yksiselitteisiä.
 
Viimeksi muokattu:

TomTom

Ylipäällikkö
Mod

Einomies1

Ylipäällikkö
Cougar on varmasti ansioitunut kone, mutta eittämättä vanhaa teknologiaa. Nyt taidettiin haluta modernia tuotetta jolla on ns. päivitysvaraa. Eikä se käyttö johon NH-90 hankittiin ole se mihin Raja hankki omansa ole sama. Maallikon silmissä kopteri kuin kopteri, mutta meripelastuskopteri on täysin oma laitteensa. Virhe on varmasti selkeä, mutta jos aina hankitaan vanhaa, kalusto ei ikinä ole modernia ja kehityskelpoista, vaan vanhaa auringonlasku kamaa. Eli vaikea valinta.
Rajan hankkima As 332 PL1e on teknisesti täysin ajanmukainen varustukseltaan eikä Rajavartiolaitos hanki vanhaa tai huonoa tekniikkaa kun kysymys on ihmishenkien pelastamisesta. PL1 versiot ainoastaan päivitettiin täysin digitaalisiksi ja sisältä meni lähes kaikki uusiksi. Sen kysyin itse rajalta. Vain häiveteknisesti Puma on huonompi, mutta erittäin toimintavarma ja tehokas. Kaiken lisäksi se toimii säässä kuin säässä, merellä ja maalla. Huollon ja varaosien kanssa ei ole ollut tietääkseni ongelmia, eikä liioin korroosion kestävyys ole ongelmana kuten NH:ssa.
Vaikka FinnHEMS on yksityinen, sen omistavat sairaanhoitopiirit. Kopteritoiminta taas ostetaan kahdelta yksityiseltä toimialta. Käsittääkseni Raja, eikä PV ei sitä halua kontolleen.
Et tainnut oikein ymmärtää että vertasin sinun kommenttiasi yksityisen toimijan ja valtion viranomaisten kesken. Tarkoitin että meillä sisäministeriö ja puolustusministeriö voivat hankkia samaa kalustoa jos haluavat. Sitä ei rajoita mikään lainsäädäntö tms. Ainoastaan asenne.

Yksityisten palveluntarjoajien kanssa on eri juttu ja FinnHEMS oli vain esimerkki tästä. Ei sillä että samaa kalustoa olisi mitenkään teknisesti järkevää hankkia. Keskiraskas lääkärikopteri olisi varmaan hieman ylimitoitettu ja kallis lentää, kun tarve on pääasiassa kuljettaa 3 henkilöä.
 

kimmo.j

Respected Leader
Lahjoittaja
Rajan hankkima As 332 PL1e on teknisesti täysin ajanmukainen varustukseltaan eikä Rajavartiolaitos hanki vanhaa tai huonoa tekniikkaa kun kysymys on ihmishenkien pelastamisesta. PL1 versiot ainoastaan päivitettiin täysin digitaalisiksi ja sisältä meni lähes kaikki uusiksi. Sen kysyin itse rajalta. Vain häiveteknisesti Puma on huonompi, mutta erittäin toimintavarma ja tehokas. Kaiken lisäksi se toimii säässä kuin säässä, merellä ja maalla. Huollon ja varaosien kanssa ei ole ollut tietääkseni ongelmia, eikä liioin korroosion kestävyys ole ongelmana kuten NH:ssa.

Et tainnut oikein ymmärtää että vertasin sinun kommenttiasi yksityisen toimijan ja valtion viranomaisten kesken. Tarkoitin että meillä sisäministeriö ja puolustusministeriö voivat hankkia samaa kalustoa jos haluavat. Sitä ei rajoita mikään lainsäädäntö tms. Ainoastaan asenne.

Yksityisten palveluntarjoajien kanssa on eri juttu ja FinnHEMS oli vain esimerkki tästä. Ei sillä että samaa kalustoa olisi mitenkään teknisesti järkevää hankkia. Keskiraskas lääkärikopteri olisi varmaan hieman ylimitoitettu ja kallis lentää, kun tarve on pääasiassa kuljettaa 3 henkilöä.
En väittänyt, ettei SuperPuma olisi hyvä meripelastuskopteri. Sanoin, että Cougar on vanhempaa mallia kuljetuskopterina ja epäilen, että sen päivitettävyys on NH-90:seen verrattuna heikompi.
Jos/kun tarkoitus on toimia vihollisen ilmatorjunnan vaikutusalueella tuo häivekysymys on saattanut saada paljon arvoa. Siksi hankinta hetkellä oli ymmärrettävää jättää se valitsematta.
 

Merten sheriffi

Greatest Leader
Lahjoittaja
Turun Pumat edelleen vanhoissa väreissä. Joko niitä ei olla vielä kaikkia päivitetty Ranskassa tai sitten maalausta ei tulla muuttamaan. Helsingin Pumat vaan modernimman näköisiä. Vinssi on kuulemma uusissa aivan helmi käytettävä.
 

Einomies1

Ylipäällikkö
Tässä tst-koptereista asiaa eli juttua AH-1W Super Cobrien myynnistä:

Pentagon To Sell-Off Its AH-1W Super Cobra Attack Helicopter Fleet
The still very relevant and capable "Whiskey Cobras" are certain to be very sought after weapons once they hit the market.
By Tyler RogowayJanuary 19, 2018

The Department of Defense plans on putting its surplus fleet of AH-1W Super Cobras up for sale on the international arms market. The news comes as the USMC continues to outfit its light attack helicopter squadrons with new-build AH-1Z "Viper" derivatives of the Bell design, which traces its roots directly to the iconic UH-1 Iroquois/Huey.

A recent business opportunity posting over at Fedbizops.gov describes the need for flight and maintenance training, sustainment, and refitting "Whisky Cobras" with new commercially available off-the-shelf avionics upgrades in preparation for foreign transfers of the type which will begin this year. The idea being that a foreign power can purchase the airframes and have them kitted out as they see fit, and also have available contractor support to make the sale a "turn-key" operation. An industry day is planned for January 24th for any companies that are looking to support the initiative with their services and products.


The AH-1W's cockpit is antiquated by today's standards, incorporating "steam" gauges, optical targeting scopes, and even a heads up display (HUD) for the pilot that looks like it was ripped out of a light fighter from the 1980s. But even though their system may not be cutting-edge, the aircraft remain brutally effective at their job. A new "glass" cockpit would only substantially increase their lethality. The posting also states that any new cockpit configurations will have to work with the aircraft's existing weapons fit.

The U.S. Army previously liquidated its fleet of less capable single-engine AH-1 models that were pulled from service in the early 2000s, a process that ended in 2010.

Originally the AH-1Z program intended to remanufacture all but 58 of the 226 AH-1Zs it was slated to acquire from existing AH-1W airframes, but that changed quickly as the program gained momentum. The price difference between new-build and remanufactured helicopters shrunk dramatically, so it really didn't make sense to go through all the effort and logistics of reusing older AH-1W airframes that also still held value.

In the end only 37 AH-1Ws were reworked into AH-1Zs, and that effort ended in 2014. As such, there is a large fleet of Whisky Cobras that could potentially be sold off as surplus to a foreign buyer, or donated via foreign military aid initiatives. Of course any sale, or gift for that matter, would have to be approved by the U.S. State Department.

Surplus AH-1Ws hitting the market will join nearly as many OH-58D Kiowa Warrior armed scout helicopters which are also being exported as surplus after the Army controversially retired the type last year—both to the chagrin of attack and scout helicopter manufacturers who see flooding the market with affordable used airframes as detrimental to their business prospects. But the cobras will likely prove even more attractive than the Kiowa Warriors due to their more potent combat capabilities and more powerful twin-engine design.

The existence of relatively cheap and upgradable Whisky Cobras could even hurt Bell's looming export success of the UH-1Y/AH-1Z family of helicopters. Cash-strapped Eastern European militaries who are seeking to add the next generation Huey family to their inventories could move toward acquiring upgraded AH-1W for at least part of their attack helicopter needs. Smaller countries, like the Baltic States, could even acquire these helicopters to dramatically build up their anti-armor defenses against a potential Russian incursion.

Where the AH-1Ws will likely get a lot of interest is from countries that are facing increasing internal threats from extremist forces or are experiencing major instability along their borders. Countries like Jordan have already benefitted from second-hand Cobras to help protect its borders from extremist infiltration. The issue is so strategically important that Israel gifted Jordan a number of surplus single engine Cobras in recent years to help satisfy this particular mission set.
The type could also come in handy in places like the Philippines, where precision air support in urban areas is becoming a major factor in the country's ability to beat back ISIS aligned forces. AH-1Ws could even find a place in Africa. Nigeria in particular showed interest in acquiring surplus attack helicopters from the U.S. but was turned down in the past. This could change under the Trump Administration. Tunisia is another possible taker.

The AH-1W descends directly from the Sea Cobra, and was originally designed with deploying aboard amphibious assault ships in mind. Considering the boom in helicopter carrier acquisition around the globe in recent years, the AH-1Ws could be a very attractive and cost effective option for outfitting these ships with a hard-hitting, multi-role attack capability. For instance, Thailand could purchase a squadron for its aircraft carrier the HTMS Chakri Naruebet, a ship that lost its Harrier force a decade ago and could use Cobras to help bring back some of its offensive punch. Brazil, which is getting the Royal Navy's HMS Ocean, could also purchase surplus USMC Cobras to give the ship's future air wing some serious bite. Doing so would also help to compensate for the fact that country's only fixed-wing carrier will never sail again.

The list goes on and on, but clearly we can expect these aircraft to be relatively hot commodities in the coming months. It's also worth mentioning the possibility that these aircraft could be utilized by Iraq and Afghanistan, the latter of which still depends on Russian-built gunships, although armed Black Hawks are part of the questionable transition plan over to American made rotary-wing assets.


The Cobra, even without any upgrades, is well adapted to operating in austere environments and is simple to maintain compared to many of its more complex international counterparts. It can also deploy the TOW missile in combat, which is both economical and well suited for counter-insurgency operations. With all this in mind, the Whisky Cobra could give Afghanistan an injection of precision air support it desperately needs, and without costing the American taxpayer huge sums of money.
Who knows, a handful of the aircraft could even find their way into mercenary hands, at least that was the founder of Blackwater International's plan when he pitched taking over the air war in Afghanistan from the DoD.

The old adage "one man's trash is another man's treasure" couldn't be more accurate when it comes to the worldwide arms market, with unwanted American equipment being highly attractive to countries in decent standing with Washington. But these Cobras are an especially relevant opportunity, and considering the Trump Administration's more laissez-faire approach to arms exports, it will be very interesting to see who grabs for them first.
The USMC's transition from AH-1W to AH-1Z should be complete sometime in 2020.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17810/pentagon-to-sell-off-its-ah-1w-super-cobra-attack-helicopter-fleet
 

Einomies1

Ylipäällikkö
Hägglundilla vielä viisari värähtänee ajatuksesta AH-1W Utissa.

.... tarkemmin ajatellen, kenelläpä ei... :D
Olisi kerrankin jotain muuta säväyttävää kesän lentonäytöksiin kuin Bambi buckettien nostelua.
Tuohon tyyliin:
Kaupan mukana reilusti 20mm tykinammuksia PGU 28A/B SAPHEI, 70mm raketteja HE-kärjillä ja TOW 2A + Bunker Buster ohjuksia. Kustannustehokkaita ja yksinkertaisia aseita/ammuksia kaikki.
 

EK

Kenraali
Tuohon tyyliin:
Kaupan mukana reilusti 20mm tykinammuksia PGU 28A/B SAPHEI, 70mm raketteja HE-kärjillä ja TOW 2A + Bunker Buster ohjuksia. Kustannustehokkaita ja yksinkertaisia aseita/ammuksia kaikki.
Ilmatorjunnan puute ei ole kovin kivaa...
 

Leaderwolf

Ylipäällikkö
Lahjoittaja
US Army issues RFI for Future Long-Range Assault Aircraft

29015

The US Army has issued a request for information (RFI) for a Future Long-Range Assault Aircraft (FLRAA) to enter service in 2030.

The RFI, released on 4 April, covers the Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk and Boeing AH-64 Apache-replacement that was previously known as Capability (Cap) Set 3 (Assault)/Future Vertical Lift (FVL)-Medium.

As noted in the solicitation, the FLRAA performance parameters broadly mirror those of Cap Set 3 (Assault)/FVL-Medium, for which the Joint MultiRole - Technology Demonstrator (JMR-TD) programme has seen Bell develop the V-280 Valor tiltrotor and Boeing-Sikorsky the SB>1 Defiant co-axial compound helicopter.

While the FLRAA effort will be led by the US Army, the US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and the US Marine Corps (USMC) will look to follow with their own procurements approximately two years after the army. FLRAA mission sets will include utility, transport, troop insertion and exfiltration, close air support, medical evacuation, and V-22 tiltrotor escort.

Specifications laid out by the army include a hover-out-of-ground-effect (HOGE) at 6,000 ft and 95°F (the army's 6K/95 benchmark) at combat radius and with a mission payload; an unrefuelled combat radius of 170-229 n miles, with 30-minute loiter; a maximum continuous cruise speed of 230-270 kt with full payload; an internal payload of 3,500-4,000 lb; an external payload of 6,000-8,000 lb; capacity for 10-12 passengers; to self-deploy 2,100 n miles without refuelling and with a rolling take-off; interoperability for joint operations; the ability to operate for up to 30 days without external support, in-flight refuelling receiver and donor; an operational readiness-rate in excess of 90%; commonality with other FVL-family aircraft; and survivability

https://www.janes.com/article/87694/us-army-issues-rfi-for-future-long-range-assault-aircraft
 

TBman

Ylipäällikkö
US Army issues RFI for Future Long-Range Assault Aircraft

View attachment 29015

The US Army has issued a request for information (RFI) for a Future Long-Range Assault Aircraft (FLRAA) to enter service in 2030.

The RFI, released on 4 April, covers the Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk and Boeing AH-64 Apache-replacement that was previously known as Capability (Cap) Set 3 (Assault)/Future Vertical Lift (FVL)-Medium.

As noted in the solicitation, the FLRAA performance parameters broadly mirror those of Cap Set 3 (Assault)/FVL-Medium, for which the Joint MultiRole - Technology Demonstrator (JMR-TD) programme has seen Bell develop the V-280 Valor tiltrotor and Boeing-Sikorsky the SB>1 Defiant co-axial compound helicopter.

While the FLRAA effort will be led by the US Army, the US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and the US Marine Corps (USMC) will look to follow with their own procurements approximately two years after the army. FLRAA mission sets will include utility, transport, troop insertion and exfiltration, close air support, medical evacuation, and V-22 tiltrotor escort.

Specifications laid out by the army include a hover-out-of-ground-effect (HOGE) at 6,000 ft and 95°F (the army's 6K/95 benchmark) at combat radius and with a mission payload; an unrefuelled combat radius of 170-229 n miles, with 30-minute loiter; a maximum continuous cruise speed of 230-270 kt with full payload; an internal payload of 3,500-4,000 lb; an external payload of 6,000-8,000 lb; capacity for 10-12 passengers; to self-deploy 2,100 n miles without refuelling and with a rolling take-off; interoperability for joint operations; the ability to operate for up to 30 days without external support, in-flight refuelling receiver and donor; an operational readiness-rate in excess of 90%; commonality with other FVL-family aircraft; and survivability

https://www.janes.com/article/87694/us-army-issues-rfi-for-future-long-range-assault-aircraft
Näitä meillekin, Uttiin 8 kpl.n monitorilla jolla treenataan käytäntöä ja sitten nopeissa tilanteissa salamannopeasti paikalle.
Tämä olisi tosi nopea täsmäasejärjestelmä.
 

Huhta

Respected Leader
ELSO 2.0
Lisää koptereita on hankkeiden Ö-mapissa.
Ei koske Tsekkiä. Hakevat lupaa ostaa neljä kopteria reilulla 200 miljoonalla dollarilla.


Sale of AH-1Z Attack Helicopters to the Czech Republic approved
By
George Allison
-
May 9, 2019









The US State Department has approved a Foreign Military Sale to Czech Republic of four AH-1Z attack helicopters and related equipment for an estimated cost of $205 million.
The Defense Security Cooperation Agency published the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale, which is displayed below.
“The Government of Czech Republic has requested to buy four (4) AH-1Z attack helicopters, eight (8) T700-GE-701D engines (installed), eight (8) Honeywell Embedded Global Positioning Systems with Inertial Navigation (EGI) and Precise Positioning Service (PPS) (installed), and fourteen (14) AGM-114 Hellfire missiles. Also included is communication equipment, electronic warfare systems, M197 20mm machine guns, Target Sight System, support equipment, spare engine containers, spare and repair parts, tools and test equipment, technical data and publications, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The total estimated program cost is $205 million.”
The department say that the proposed sale will ‘support the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a NATO partner that is an important force for ensuring peace and stability in Europe’.
The Czech Republic is considering either the UH-60M or the UH-1Y/AH-1Z to replace its aging Mi-24 helicopters and intends to use these helicopters to help modernise its armed forces and strengthen its defence.
The notice adds:
“This will contribute to the Czech Republic’s military goal of updating its capabilities while further enhancing interoperability with the United States and NATO allies. The Czech Republic will have no difficulty absorbing these helicopters into its armed forces.
The principal contractors will be Bell Helicopter, Textron, Fort Worth, Texas; and General Electric Company, Lynn, Massachusetts. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.”

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.
 

rty19

Luutnantti
Hieman tuon Defiantin tapainen kopteri joka kilpailee seuraavan future attack recon -kopterin sopimuksesta.

 
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