Ukrainan konflikti/sota

Mitenkähän tässä käy.:unsure:


Edit siis klo 14:00 paikallista aikaa pitäisi Mauripolissa naisille, lapsille ja vanhuksille evakuointi alkaa..
Ryssä tyypilliseen tapaan tulittaa saattuetta ja estää.
 
Toivottavasti Mariupol kestää vielä ainakin tuon 3 viikkoa. Venäjän asenteella minkäänlaisen sopimuksen antaminen siihen suuntaan on iso tappio koko läntiselle yhteisölle. Vaihtoehdot ovat huonoja, Putin jatkaa likaista sotaa tai jos Ukraina antaa periksi niin Kreml suunnittelee vielä suurempaa eskalaatiota.
Taisin olla liian optimistinen Mariupolin suhteen. Ryssä näyttä murentavan bunkkeria pommeillaan ja tekevän koko alueesta kivikasan. Uudelleen mietittynä, onkohan jäätyvä konflikti taas mahdollinen jos ryssä pysähtyy?
En ole muuten käyttänyt aiemmin tätä r-sanaa mutta nyt ei enää muuta voi, sen verran ikävästi toimivat.
 
ML270:seen (150 km) että M-142 Himarssiin (300-500 km)
Pakko RSRAKH miehenä korjata. Sama kasetti, samat ammukset, toisessa vain on telat ja kaksi kasettia, toisessa pyörät ja yksi kasetti. M270 ja Himars ampuu samaan etäisyyteen samaa puikkoa. Nyt pisin on ATACMS (n.300km) mutta kohta PrSM ohjus/raketti (500-1000km). Meillä on se versio joka kantaa enemmän ammuksia latauksessa ja pärjää paskemmassa maastossa. Himars on sitten nopeasti kuljetettava light versio samoilla ammuksilla.
 
Ryssä tyypilliseen tapaan tulittaa saattuetta ja estää.

Postasin eilen pitkän artikkelin yhden perheen matkasta Mariupolista Lviviin ja siitä saa valitettavasti saman kuvan. Ymmärrän hyvin miksi joku ei halua lähteä noille käytäville ellei sitten ole pakko. Artikkelissa verenpainevaroitus.



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"The war has begun. We are going! ”

On February 24, at 3:50, my mother heard the first explosion, ran to my younger sister and me in the room, and said loudly the worst words: “The war has started. We are going! ” Where are we going? How are we going? We quickly stuffed our bags with warm clothes and leftover food. We thought we could leave. But it did not work - the city was closed.

Then the real horror began. People ran out of houses, tried to buy everything, withdraw cash, and refuel cars. And there were explosions around.

At 12 o'clock in the afternoon, our house was already shaking. Which basement should we run to? I called the head of the condominium and asked where to hide. I was told that "our basement is not designed for this, there are windows, repairs, there is no way."

At that time we still had all the communications. We had a relatively small supply of food and water because we thought it would take 3-4 days.


Katso liite: 60487

"What is a bath in an ordinary Khrushchevka?" ( *is an unofficial name for a type of low-cost, concrete-*paneled or brick three- to a five-storied apartment building that was developed in the Soviet Union during the early 1960s, during the time its namesake Nikita Khrushchev directed the Soviet government).

Two days have passed since the beginning of the war, and communication, water, and light have disappeared. Later there was no gas. We realized that the situation was difficult.

Shells flew to Mariupol all this time. The left bank of the city was destroyed, explosive waves reached the Primorsky district, and everything roared.

In the apartment, we hung the windows and inserted foam between them. We thought it would protect us.

They decided to hide in the bathroom. There were days when we already knew what time we would be fired upon. As soon as there was a noise, a rustle, an explosion, they immediately ran to the bathroom. It gradually got boring. There was no hope that everything would end, that we would be saved. So what is a bath in an ordinary Khrushchevka?

One morning, I don't remember exactly what number we were all lying in the same room. They heard everyone walking around the apartment, something falling in the next room.

But we lay there thinking, no, it's far away, we don't believe it.

The vibrations of the earth began, and the house seemed to bounce. We quickly locked ourselves in the bathroom. At first, there was such silence, it seemed as if something was falling, and then the blast wave pierced everything to the bottom. The upper floors of the house just formed. Pieces of concrete, furniture, and slate from the roof fell, and glass flew. They were shouting everywhere.

Katso liite: 60488
"People were ready to kill each other for a sip of water"

We managed to get out of the house, my father ordered us to go quickly to the first-best basement.

Around the ice, glass, noise, shots, and we run and think: at least there were stairs to the basement, at least to go down, at least we were not crushed by the stove.

My sister ran to the basement first, followed by me and my parents. They started knocking and heard that there were people inside and they were whispering. Eventually, a man opened the door and said that he could not let us in - they say there are a lot of people in the basement, and there is no extra space. My father did not listen, pushed him away, and we went.

There were 20 people inside, our neighbors. Another family with a five-month-old baby came with us. That is, if we hadn't broken in, more than one family would have died under our house.

In the basement, we saw various horrors. People ran out of food, they turned into animals. They were ready to kill each other for a sip of water.

There was nothing to cook, water was extracted from ice and snow.

People were exposed to insane danger when they went outside - fragments, pieces of buildings, and stones flew at them.

One day a mine landed in front of our door. The hole was so big, that it seemed as if someone had dug deep. We thought we would fall asleep, the building had already begun to collapse. We were afraid that it would become our mass grave.

"In this basement were only our hope and prayer"

My mother has been suffering from polyneuropathy for six years. This is a lesion of the nervous system. Against the background of stress, she stopped walking, her heart stopped twice. Pharmacies did not work, we did not have drugs. The ambulance in front of our basement was destroyed.

My father resuscitated my mother as best he could - artificial respiration, heart massage. Pills had to be looked for under fire. We couldn't lose our mother. There was only our hope and prayer in this basement. And that's all.

On the tenth day of our stay there we had one piece of bread left. It was the size of my fist. We divided it into four times. I couldn't eat my piece because we were starving for a long time. He was with me for a very long time. I was afraid that everything would end and not even him.

People quarreled with each other, quarreled, tried to drive someone out of the basement so that there was one mouth less. There was no kindness, only darkness, and we could already smell death.

It lasted 12 days.


Katso liite: 60489

"We can't leave. This is my grave "

The shelling usually began at about four in the morning. Then there was a short break, and at 10 o'clock - again. But that day everyone woke up to an unprecedented noise at two in the morning. We lay and tried to fall asleep. The cup on the shelf above me jumped. The sound was as if I were lying down and four trains were passing by me on each side.

Usually, when they shot, a child cried, and someone read the prayer aloud. And that time everyone was silent.

Suddenly the ground began to tremble, it seemed as if everything was flying at us. Plaster and brick fell from the ceiling.

I lay and thought: we will not get out of here. This is my grave. I had already lost hope in everything, I could neither pray nor hope. It's over, it can't be so long. A person suffers for something, - I repeated to myself.

At that moment, I was sure that I would die and not die alone. My family was lying on the same blanket like me.

I still decided to pray. I asked God to die quickly and not to see the deaths of my relatives, not to see how they are suffering, and I can't help them.

We had nothing. No strength, no hope, not even a normal first aid kit. Everyone understood that if he hit, we would not get out of here. As in the next building, where no one got. Because it was forbidden by enemy soldiers, it was simply impossible.

"Either we starve to death, or we fall asleep, or we are just killed."

I don't remember how the days went by. We were tortured, hungry, tired. My father once said, "Either we die of starvation, or we fall asleep, or we are just killed." Russian soldiers walked through the basements, checked who was sitting there, and dropped bombs. When they knocked on our door, we did not answer.

One day we heard from neighbors that you can go to Melekino. My dad had an old Zhiguli (an old car made in USSR), broken from buildings and glass. We didn't even know if the car would start, but it moved. We drove under shelling, hail. The fighting continued, and we had one goal: to survive, to get out of this hell.

We almost reached Melekino, where the DNR post was located. They understood that we would not be able to return, and they did not want to go further: if they did not kill there, they would kill here, for the enemy we are nothing, just a target.

We were stopped at a checkpoint and asked about the place of registration. "Mariupol? To your right."

We didn't know what "right" was. From there we were directed further and further. So gradually formed a large column of cars and even people walking.

Later, the DNR military told him to go down. We moved, and they just shot at cars and people.

"With all our money we were able to buy two loaves of bread"

So we drove to Yalta (Donetsk region - ed.), where we hid for more than 10 days in an old boarding house. We had no food, we took water from a well. The cash we had left was nothing.

In Yalta, they changed the government to the DNR, and they allegedly tried to show themselves on the good side. They were invited to come to them, to give their name, and surname, in order to receive humanitarian aid. People went to survive, not to starve. But no rations were given there - they were received by locals, who sold them at the market at space prices.

There were also several shops in Yalta that imported Russian products. Prices are high, the queues are huge. With the money we had, we could only buy two loaves of bread. We protected them and hid them so that they would not be taken away.

Even then, there was a "denationalization" in Yalta: soldiers went from house to house, looking for "nationalists", "fascists", as they say there. People were taken away in unknown directions, someone was killed.


Katso liite: 60490

Hunger, cold, and fear of freezing

In Yalta, hunger, cold, and fear of freezing came to us again. All we had was fire, water, tea, and two loaves of bread. The parents decided to leave.

So we got to filter in Mangush. There were two camps. The first - is for people who walked. They could be filtered for more than a month, the queues were crazy. People tried their best to escape. And another camp was for those who are cars.

The camp is not a settlement, it's just a convoy of cars. There were 500 cars in line in front of us, thousands more behind us.

Getting out of cars, looking for food, and water, and going to the toilet were forbidden. Soldiers with weapons went everywhere, threatened, checked, and made sure everyone was there.

This filtration camp, we were told, was open from 5 a.m. to 11 p.m., but in fact, until they woke up, had breakfast, smoked, talked on the phone, changed, nothing started.

They had nothing to do with civilians. Every hour there were two if you're lucky - three cars. We lived in the car for two days waiting for our turn.

"Filtration begins at age 14"

Here's how filtering works: they have a checkpoint. There comes a car, where they check every pocket, glove compartment, trunk, every bag. People have clothes and what's under them. Men are undressed on the street near cars. They are looking for tattoos, some labels, in a word, "nationalists".

It happened that not all passengers from the car were filtered: they could pick up their father or mother, and the car had to move on. People were confused. They had weapons, but people had nothing.

Our turn came at 11 pm, we were the last car that day. We were launched and searched. My mother no longer went because of her illness. He and his sister were allowed not to leave: they said that "filtration begins at age 14".

My father and I went out. At a distance of 200 meters from our car was a booth with two rooms. Exhausted people stood on the street, they had no clothes, and it was cold outside. My legs were so cold then that I could not feel my toes.

They just walked, talked to each other, and discussed women who were tortured.

I heard conversations between them:

"And the one who didn't pass, where did you take him?" One of them asked.

"Yes, I shot him. Probably 10 already, maybe more. I'm not counting, I'm tired."

One man, who was going through the filtration, came out with huge, frightened eyes. It shook him. He said he was severely interrogated and beaten. His wife was never released.

"They tried to find people who love their homeland, who wanted to live normally"

Then it was our turn. I went to one filtration room, my father to another.

My fingerprints were taken, documents were scanned, and my phone was checked. They asked provocative questions. About the government, of Ukraine, about my own positions. They tried to find people who love their homeland, and who wanted to live normally. They are mocked, humiliated, and could beat us.

They took my passport and saw that I was 17. They didn't like me, I looked too young, and they were looking for some young girls.

I was pushed out of there. I was accompanied to the car by their armed soldier.

He pushed me because I was walking slowly. I fell and hit my knee, but I understood that if I didn't get up now and run to the car, I wouldn't go back. I ran with all my might.

My mother saw me alone. She began to panic: what about her father? He did not pass? Has he already been killed? Is he being bullied? And I couldn't say anything. She sat and did not know what would happen next.

However, the father returned in 40 minutes. We saw him being pushed out. He came out and fell. He tried to get up and fell. But still got to the car.

Due to the beating on the "filtration", the father lost his sight

My father pressed the gas and we set off. There was no direct road to Berdyansk: the bridge was blown up, so we drove around the neighborhood, villages. We saw corpses and broken equipment around.

Already on the way, the father began to have vision problems - he did not see.

In Berdyansk we spent the night in a car. Already there, the father told how his filtration took place.

He was also asked for documents, fingerprints, undressed, and searched. They began to interrogate, pressed morally. First pushed. When they saw that his phone was empty, the questions began: “Why is the phone empty? What are you hiding? We don't believe you! ” And he was just hit on the head. He does not remember who, how, and what. He remembers how he found himself on the street. My father lost his sight from that beating, and we still had to move on.

There were 27 checkpoints from Berdyansk to Zaporizhia, and each of them was checked for documents, a car, and asked if it was filtered. People were deprived of food, and warm clothes asked for cigarettes and even asked about drugs and alcohol.

We were driving, and there were fights nearby. Something flew under the car, there was an explosion, the car jumped. My father told me not to worry - maybe it was a firecracker. But we understood that there were no firecrackers in the war.

The road was difficult. We saw destroyed houses, anti-tank mines in the middle of the road, tanks with the letter Z in the yards, charred bodies along the road, and broken cars. The forest around us was burning.



Katso liite: 60491

"Don't be afraid. This is Ukraine"

At dawn, we drove to Orikhovo, Zaporizhzhia region. Ahead of us on the road were fireplace blocks, hedgehogs, thorns. It feels like it was easier to breathe, and then we saw the Ukrainian flag ahead.

At first, they were scared: is it a provocation? Is this another exam we have to pass?

We were stopped. They say: "Good afternoon! Please show the documents. "

We showed, although we were still convinced, that it was a provocation.

We were told: “Do not be afraid. This is Ukraine".

We started crying. They could not believe that we were under protection, that we had found our land.

Then we went to the refugee assistance center in Zaporizhia (city). My mother was given medical care because she wasn't able to walk. My father was very ill: he did not see. My sister and I are emotionally exhausted. We were psychologically broken.

Volunteers helped us get to the Dnipro (city).

In the city, the father was examined by two doctors, who concluded that he had an injury due to a concussion. In one eye - complete loss of vision and in the other see as if through a cellophane bag.

Volunteers sent us to Lviv (city) to receive quality medical care. Here the father was examined again. We were told that his treatment would be long, difficult, and expensive and that we might have to go abroad.

"We cannot lose our father. He saved us, now we have to help him, "Maria's mother, Natalia Serhiivna, added at the end of our conversation.
 
Viimeksi muokattu:
Russia is preparing to take legal action to challenge the freeze on its $600bn (£462bn) foreign currency war chest put in place by western governments after the invasion of Ukraine, the head of the country’s central bank has said.

Elvira Nabiullina said plans were being made to launch lawsuits after governments including the US, UK and EU froze the Russian central bank’s foreign currency reserves held within their jurisdictions.

“This freezing of gold and foreign exchange reserves was unprecedented, so we are going to work on legal claims, and we are getting ready to put them forward,” Nabiullina was quoted as saying by the Kremlin-backed Tass news agency.

“This block on the gold and foreign exchange reserves of such a large country is unprecedented on a global scale.”

Heidän syynsä blokin murtamiseen on että koskaan historiassa ei ole sellaista tapahtunut. Eli toisin sanoen heidän mielestä he eivät ole tehneet mitään pahaa.
The Russian tycoon Oleg Tinkov has denounced Moscow’s “massacre” in Ukraine and urged the west to help end “this insane war”.

Offering some of the strongest criticism by a prominent Russian of the Kremlin’s military action, Tinkov claimed online that 90% of Russians were “against this war” and called Russia’s forces a “shit army”.

Tinkov is one of Russia’s best-known entrepreneurs and founded Tinkoff Bank in 2006. He has been based outside Russia in recent years.

“Waking up with a hangover, the generals realised that they have a shit army,” Tinkov, 54, wrote on Instagram.

“And how will the army be good, if everything else in the country is shit and mired in nepotism, sycophancy and servility?”

The businessman, who has been targeted by western sanctions, added: “I don’t see a SINGLE beneficiary of this insane war! Innocent people and soldiers are dying.”
 
Jamppa joka myi keroa oli hölmö, menetti virkansa. Tappiot valtiolle 0 € tai mk, koska ko. kero oli käynyt taivaalla ja oli jätettä.
Samassa tutkinnassa paljastui, että sitä poltettiin myös ilmavoimien Lapin majalla.
Nykyään jätekeron poltosta maksetaan fortumille melko paljon.
Kyllä PV:stä katoaa tavaraa ja paljon, mikä on hyöty yksittäiselle henkilölle? Virkamiehen osalta se on irtisanomisen peruste.

Kuluttajille Suomessa myytävistä liikennepolttoaineiden ja lämmitysöljyn hinnasta suurin osa on veroa. Jos armeijalta saadusta tai varastetusta liikenteeseen sopivalle polttoaineella korvataan sen ostamista verollisena muualta, niin valtiohan menettää niiden myymättä jääneiden polttoaineiden verotulot.

Sen verran paskat päivärahat varusmiehillä Suomessa, että en kyllä yhtään ihmettele jos varusmiehet kaatavat esimerkiksi varakanistereista polttoaineet omien autojen tankkeihinsa. Suosittua huvia varusmiehillä oli myös varastella toisilta varusmiehiltä kuivaushuoneista jotain itseltä kadonneita nahkaremmiä ja muuta varustetta varsinkin ennen reserviin siirtymistä ettei niitä tarvitse itse korvata omista surkeista päivärahoista.

Hölmöyttähän se on varsinkin kantahenkilökuntaan kuuluvien varastaa varsinkin jotain vähäarvoista tavaraa kun kiinnijäädessä seurauksena on työpaikan menetys ja mahdollinen rikosrekisteri. Ei oikein riskien ja tuoton suhde ole tasapainossa kun jostakin vessapaperien tai kiväärin tai pistoolin patruunoiden varastamisesta lähtee työpaikka alta ja saa rikosrekisterin jos jää kiinni.

Yksityisellä sektorilla olen useinkin joutunut tuhoamaan tavaraa, jolla olisi käyttöä itsellekin ja jolla olisi vielä jonkinlainen jälleenmyyntiarvokin. Mutta ei niitä kestä varsinkaan omalla luvalla itselle ottaa vaan ne hävitetään pyydetyllä tavalla vaikka se hävittäminen aiheuttaa kustannuksia vähintään jätemaksun verran.

Suomen armeijassa varastelu ja korruptio on marginaalista puuhastelua. Ryssän armeijassa se varastelu ja korruptio taas kuuluu asiaan ja suurin osa armeijan ja armeijalle tarkoitetuista resursseissa katoaa varkauksien ja korruption myötä. Venäjän armeijassa kenraalin palkkakin on kuukaudessa 2300 euroa. Varastelun ja korruption avulla tuohon kuukausiliksaan tullee ryssä-kenraalille vähintään pari nollaa perään "luontaisetuina". Ryssänmaan diktaattori Putin taas tienasi 2020 vuonna 110000 euron tulot veroilmoituksensa mukaan. Todellisuudessa Putin rosvosi korruption ja varkauksien avulla itselleen monta kymmentä tuhatta kertaa enemmän rahaa.

Ukrainan ja Suomenkin kannalta se on vain hyvä asia, että Venäjän armeija on yksi kleptomaanien kerho ja varkaudet ja korruptio kohdistuu pääosin omalta armeijalta varastamiseen. Lopputuloksena mikään ei toimi kun kaikki varastettu autojen renkaita myöten ja räjähteetkin korvattu puupalikoilla. Vanha viisaushan sen jo kertoo, että kasakka ottaa sen, mikä on huonosti kiinni.
 
Jotenkin tuntuu, ettei nämä lukemat ole totta. Ja jos vaikka oliskin niin näistä luulis olevan enemmän haittaa kuin hyötyä. Nämä tuskin osaa käyttää ryssän vehkeitä ja muutenkin komentokielessä voi olla rikkinäistä puhelinta. Vai olisko nämä puhtaasti jalkamiehiä.

Jalkamiehiä/apumiehiä/siviilienkiduttajia yms. Nyt HIMARS:t yms äkkiä tulille. Maaleja löytyy. Tuo Ukraina näyttää vetävän (jos uutinen totta) tuota kuonaa sen verran, että päästäisiin pienellä tuotto/panossuhteella noista eroon kunnon keskityksillä.
 
Venäjän ongelma on että heillä suorituskyky laskee yhtään pidemmällä trendillä, ja vastaavasti Ukrainan kalusto vain lisääntyy ja modernisoituu. Tuntuu että tämä on *se* mahdollisuus heille. Joka nyt kuitenkaan ei ihan läpijuoksulta vaikuta vielä nytkään. Mielenkiintoiset pari viikkoa edessä.
 
Norway will donate 100 mistral air defence missiles to Ukraine, its defence ministry said in a statement on Wednesday.

The mistral air protection system is “an effective weapon that has been used in the maritime defence, and that will be of great benefit to Ukraine” defence minister Bjørn Arild Gram said in a statement.

The mistral system has been used on deminers and corvettes. It is a type of air defence that the armed forces has planned to replace. It will therefore not have a major impact on the national operational capability to donate the missiles.

The missile will be phased out by the Norwegian armed forces, but it is still a modern and effective weapon that will be of great benefit to Ukraine.”
The weapons have already been sent out of Norway, the ministry added.
Russia has given the besieged port city of Mariupol a fresh ultimatum to surrender by 2pm today.

In a statement issued early on Wednesday morning, the Russian defence ministry said its forces opened a humanitarian corridor from the Azovstal plant “for the withdrawal of Ukrainian servicemen and militants of nationalist formations” to “voluntarily lay down their arms” as well as to evacuate civilians.

“As of 22:00 (Moscow time) on April 19, 2022, no one used the specified corridor,” the ministry added.

Russia said it would “once again” offer Ukraine the option “to stop fighting and lay down their weapons” from 2pm ( Moscow time) on Wednesday, 20 April.
Russia has given the besieged port city of Mariupol a fresh ultimatum to surrender by 2pm today.

In a statement issued early on Wednesday morning, the Russian defence ministry said its forces opened a humanitarian corridor from the Azovstal plant “for the withdrawal of Ukrainian servicemen and militants of nationalist formations” to “voluntarily lay down their arms” as well as to evacuate civilians.

“As of 22:00 (Moscow time) on April 19, 2022, no one used the specified corridor,” the ministry added.

Russia said it would “once again” offer Ukraine the option “to stop fighting and lay down their weapons” from 2pm ( Moscow time) on Wednesday, 20 April.
 
Karttaa katsottuna vallattua aluetta on nyt laajennettu mutta eteneminen on kallista. Toisaalta Ukrainanankin on kallista ottaa isommin aloitetta. Ehkä kaukovaikutteiset länsiaseet tulevat sitten rooliin jään murtamiseksi.

Ukrainalaisten yleinen kanta on kaiken tuon ryssän harjoittaman teurastuksen jälkeen, että kaikki ryssät maasta pois ja alas Rosgvardija.
 
Eilen postasin sarkastisesti ja varovaisen optimistisesti että Saksa olisi tullut järkiinsä ja toimittavansa tavaraa Ukrainaan. Mutta todellisuudessa Saksa haisee enemmän kaalilta kuin Orbanin Unkari:


Timeline of Germanys Chanchlor Olaf Scholz promises on helping Ukraine:

1) At the end of February Germany's defense industry sends Scholz a long list of all available weapons.
2) Scholz doesn't share the list with Ukraine.
3) Scholz says that there are no more weapons left in Germany to give to Ukraine.
4) Germany's defense industry leakes the list to Ukraine's ambassador.
5) Scholz says that the weapons on the list don't work.
6) The defense industry denies this and leakes the list to the press.
7) Scholz states Ukrainians can't master the weapons in the available time.
8) German defense experts tell the German press that Ukrainians can master the weapons in 2-3 weeks.
9) Scholz says the weapons are needed by NATO and NATO must approve their transfer.
10) NATO officials and German generals deny this.
11) Scholz says no other NATO/EU ally is delivering heavy weapons to Ukraine.
12) The US, UK, Australia, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, Turkey, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Romania, Netherlands, etc. publish the lists of heavy weapon they deliver to Ukraine.
13) Under pressure Scholz announces €2 billion for Ukraine's military.
14) German parliamentarians find out that it's really just €1 billion, which won't be available for another 2-3 months, and then Scholz can veto or delay indefinitely every item Ukraine wants to buy.
15) The US, France, Poland, Romania, Japan, the UK and Italy, plus the heads of EU and NATO spend an afternoon trying to talk sense into Scholz.
16) Scholz makes a statement and says Ukraine can have the €1 billion now and order whatever it wants from the list.
17) Ukraine's ambassador says that Scholz removed all the items Ukraine actually wants from the list before giving it to Ukraine and what remains on the list is just a fraction of the €1 billion.

Scholz isn't incompetent or mendacious... he just works for the russians.
 
Onko joku nähnyt missään luotettavaa analyysiä Moskvan upotuksesta? Jotenkin on aika epäuskottavaa, ettei muka kellään ulkopuolisella olisi tarkempaa tietoa. Kaiken järjen mukaan Naton seuranta ja valvonta on Mustalla merellä nyt sellaista luokkaa, että jokainen pierukin havaitaan.
 
Onko joku nähnyt missään luotettavaa analyysiä Moskvan upotuksesta? Jotenkin on aika epäuskottavaa, ettei muka kellään ulkopuolisella olisi tarkempaa tietoa. Kaiken järjen mukaan Naton seuranta ja valvonta on Mustalla merellä nyt sellaista luokkaa, että jokainen pierukin havaitaan.
 
Onko joku nähnyt missään luotettavaa analyysiä Moskvan upotuksesta? Jotenkin on aika epäuskottavaa, ettei muka kellään ulkopuolisella olisi tarkempaa tietoa. Kaiken järjen mukaan Naton seuranta ja valvonta on Mustalla merellä nyt sellaista luokkaa, että jokainen pierukin havaitaan.
Länsimailla ei ole pienintäkään tarvetta kertoa mitään havaintojaan julkisesti. Arvailkoot ryssä kaikessa rauhassa mitä tiedetään ja mitä ei. Antaa niiden nyt muhia omassa liemessään kun kerta sellaisen keittivät.
 
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